CO2 system so far ineffective - looking for advice

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Fredje

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
48
Location
Brussels
Hello

This weekend I switched from a DIY CO2 system connected to the powerhead output to a pressurized bottle based system, for convenience.

I'm using a ceramic disc diffusor and currently run about 30 bpm as per Sera recommendations for their CO2 system on my 180l/50g tank.

The fluid based CO2 measuring on the opposite side stays dark blue though even after a day, it is supposed to turn green when the CO2 level is right.

My tank uses the standard internal Juwel powerhead (600l/min), which relies on a lot of filter media rather than a high flow.
About half of the the micro-bubbles are trapped under the leaves of a tall plant right next to the ceramic disc diffusor and the other half seem to reach to about halfway across the tank before reaching the surface.

I wonder what the best strategy is at this point to get better CO2 levels throughout the tank? (increase CO2 bubbles? other type of diffusor? ...)

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Fred
 
I was having the same problem(drop checker). I upped the bpm and everything was kosher. I'm running just over 60 bpm and am in the safe zone. From what I've seen and heard; the bpm changes from tank to tank.
 
I run my 26g tank on 2 to 3 bps. Its on a timer that comes on 4 hours before the light and shuts off about 2 hours before the lights.

In your drop checker are you using 4dkh reference solution rather than aquarium water to mix with the pH reagent? This can affect the accuracy so its important to use 4dkh.
 
Fredje said:
Hello

This weekend I switched from a DIY CO2 system connected to the powerhead output to a pressurized bottle based system, for convenience.

I'm using a ceramic disc diffusor and currently run about 30 bpm as per Sera recommendations for their CO2 system on my 180l/50g tank.

The fluid based CO2 measuring on the opposite side stays dark blue though even after a day, it is supposed to turn green when the CO2 level is right.

My tank uses the standard internal Juwel powerhead (600l/min), which relies on a lot of filter media rather than a high flow.
About half of the the micro-bubbles are trapped under the leaves of a tall plant right next to the ceramic disc diffusor and the other half seem to reach to about halfway across the tank before reaching the surface.

I wonder what the best strategy is at this point to get better CO2 levels throughout the tank? (increase CO2 bubbles? other type of diffusor? ...)

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Fred
Click to expand...

Build a reactor. I'm about to finish mine soon and hook up my own co2.

http://youtu.be/S7DizERmyI0
 
.5 bps on a a 50g tank is probably way too little, especially with that CO2 diffusion method. I would start out by tripling that and working up.
 
Thanks for your replies!

@Bshenanagins
If my understanding is right, a reactor would in my case (using the internal Juwel bioflow filter) require installing an extra pump, which produces noise and takes up extra room -> Keeping that one as last resort.

@Robby, Brian & Aqua_chem
Increased bubble count today, let's see what happens. At the very least I'm seeing micro bubbles now reach the other side of the tank so I'm hopeful.

@Brian the drop checker fluid came in bottles, not mentioning any need to mix with water in the manual. I'm assuming that means it's pre-mixed in 4dkh water.
 
Ah I see, I have a canister so it is easier for me. It connects right in line with my intake hose.
 
After a few days of experimenting my conclusion is that a bubble rate so high I can no longer count is needed to get CO2 to wanted levels.

I think hard water could be the problem here (21dGH/12dKH), because I stopped mixing rain into tap water after a few fish got sick. Eliminating other possibilities, rain water pollution being a probable cause.
This caused hardness to steadily rise in my tank.

So I bit the bullet and ordered a small RO unit. Hopefully CO2 absorption will be easier with a softer tap/RO water mix.
 
I'd be careful about dumping in as much co2 as you can, especially if you have fish
 
Water chemistry as you described it won't have an impact on your co2. You need to look elsewhere.



Could you have too much surface agitation? Are you running a hob filter, spray bar pointed towards the surface, airstone, etc?
Check your co2 system for leaks. Spray anywhere that has gas going through it. You can make up a soapy water solution yourself, or use some sort of a product. I use a bottle of Windex, and it works fine. Are you using your own 4 dKH solution and low pH range reagent? Can you detect a pH change in your water when you're injecting co2? How are you diffusing co2?
 
Thanks everyone for your help!

Fish: They all look fine.
Leaks: none AFAIK (my ceramic diffuser has a built-in drop counter).
Reagent: using pre-prepped solution so shouldn't have to worry about it. I was very careful as to not have any tank water get into it upon placement too.
Diffuser: ceramic. Micro bubbles blown across the tank, at the bottom too.

Surface agitation? Hah, didn't think about that - I'll eliminate that next. My filter is standard internal Juwel Bioflow 3.0 with a Juwel eccoflow 600l/h, outflow is currently just beneath the surface.
 
I've only encountered it premixed with Fluval. I rather mix it myself...not hard to do at all.
 
The premade solution raises all kind of red flags to me too, although with the amount of CO2 you were putting in you should be able to see changes in the fish within a few hours if it's getting into solution. Have you considered running your powerhead into a closed loop so you can use an inline reactor?
 
My powerhead outflow is no longer agitating the surface and I turned CO2 down to about 2bps for now. The indicator is dark blue, as always.
At 2bps and with daily fert dose, my plants are pearling though and covered in bubbles at the end of the day, so it can't be all bad.

Perhaps I should indeed buy/make a reactor. Not only to increase CO2 uptake efficiency, but I also don't like the look of my whole aquarium filled with micro bubbles when I crank it up to get to green indicator level.
BTW I think some of the bubbles get trapped in the pleco's hollow rock, he evacuated his cave in full daylight yesterday which he normally doesn't do :)
 
Update:

Since my last update I had a mild BBA outbreak so 2bps was clearly not enough.
Decided to install a reactor, powered by a second small pump tucked away in the Bioflow filter column.
I'm finally getting fast growth, a lot of pearling and algae now hardly grow anymore.

I still don't understand why I need 4-5bps, a powered reactor and almost no surface agitation to get to 30ppm in a tank of only 180l/47.5g whereas so many others with bigger tanks only need 1 or 2 bps and a ceramic disc, assuming bubble sizes in bubble counters don't vary by x2 or x3?
 
Fredje said:
Update:

Since my last update I had a mild BBA outbreak so 2bps was clearly not enough.
Decided to install a reactor, powered by a second small pump tucked away in the Bioflow filter column.
I'm finally getting fast growth, a lot of pearling and algae now hardly grow anymore.

I still don't understand why I need 4-5bps, a powered reactor and almost no surface agitation to get to 30ppm in a tank of only 180l/47.5g whereas so many others with bigger tanks only need 1 or 2 bps and a ceramic disc, assuming bubble sizes in bubble counters don't vary by x2 or x3?
Click to expand...

I am in the same position as you. I just broke down the tank today to get rid of the ridiculous amount of algae I had. Bought the green killing machine and had it running for a week with 0 improvement. So I broke it down today and rid most of the algae. Hopefully the UV keeps it at bay. Having issues with my milwaukee regulator cuz the solenoid doesn't work so I'm getting irregular gas flow which doesn't help. Bought a new one and apparently the new model connects to the hose line instead of in between the regulator and bubble counter? Anyway tank is clean and should have new solenoid by Thursday. GL with your tank
 
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