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Old 05-16-2017, 07:20 PM   #181
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Deficiencies and toxicities of plant nutrients.

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Many thanks - am I reading correctly that several chelating agents in there? I was dosing a few different products last year as 'just in case' for these but no longer bother.

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Old 05-17-2017, 02:19 AM   #182
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Yes there's quite a percentage that isn't accounted for there. I'm done with EDTA. I'm done with all chelating agents.

I'm working on my own mix now without the use of EDTA. It will take some experimentation to get it right but I'm starting low and working my way up. It's become very clear that there is no one trace mix that can work for all tanks and so they should be tailored to suit your water, substrate, plants and critters.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:24 AM   #183
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Deficiencies and toxicities of plant nutrients.

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Originally Posted by Caliban07 View Post
**important notice**

For PPS-Pro users.

In November 2016 the mixing instructions for the micro nutrients were changed.

The old instructions were 40g CSM+B in 500ml of water at 1ml dose per 10 gallons daily. This would give you.

Attachment 299032

The new instructions are

28.6g CSM+B in to 500ml of water at 0.1ml per 10 gallons daily. This will give you.

Attachment 299033

Notice any difference? I feel that this should be much better to prevent issues and the ferts should last longer.

Thanks GLA.

Thanks for the info! I'll need to make a new batch here soon.

Nice thread. I glanced at some of it; when I get some free time one day I'll dive deep into it. I've always thought less is more with fertilizers. That's why I did not like Estimative Index when I tried it a couple years back in a high tech build. Eventually I got fed up with the fine tuning of fertilizers (and carbon dioxide) and went with low light. Now I'm not even dosing nitrate anymore.

When I was running high light, I did notice that the plant Pogo erectus would always rot at the bottom and die.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:31 AM   #184
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Deficiencies and toxicities of plant nutrients.

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Thanks for the info! I'll need to make a new batch here soon.

Nice thread. I glanced at some of it; when I get some free time one day I'll dive deep into it. I've always thought less is more with fertilizers. That's why I did not like Estimative Index when I tried it a couple years back in a high tech build. Eventually I got fed up with the fine tuning of fertilizers (and carbon dioxide) and went with low light. Now I'm not even dosing nitrate anymore.

When I was running high light, I did notice that the plant Pogo erectus would always rot at the bottom and die.

Thanks no problem.

Less is better I have no doubt. The problem is with ratios and how ions interact. Some plants need more boron, other need more zinc. But more Zinc might affect the plant next to it. I understand why you went low tech but I also do not think low tech mean low light anymore. You can actually run less co2 whilst increasing the light. Plants will just grow more slowly. You can run high co2 and high light and limit P. Again plants will grow more slowly but if you limit P and Ca and increase zinc you may get a zinc toxicity or vice versa a Zinc induced deficiency.

Some plants seem to be resistant and highly adaptive to nutrient ratios and I believe that these happen be the hardier plants that are usually kept in low tech tanks.

Species like rotala, alternanthera are very sensitive.

I think less and less people will use EI dosing and leaner dosing approaches such as ADA and PPS-Pro will become the norm.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:28 AM   #185
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Thanks no problem.

Less is better I have no doubt. The problem is with ratios and how ions interact. Some plants need more boron, other need more zinc. But more Zinc might affect the plant next to it. I understand why you went low tech but I also do not think low tech mean low light anymore. You can actually run less co2 whilst increasing the light. Plants will just grow more slowly. You can run high co2 and high light and limit P. Again plants will grow more slowly but if you limit P and Ca and increase zinc you may get a zinc toxicity or vice versa a Zinc induced deficiency.

Some plants seem to be resistant and highly adaptive to nutrient ratios and I believe that these happen be the hardier plants that are usually kept in low tech tanks.

Species like rotala, alternanthera are very sensitive.

I think less and less people will use EI dosing and leaner dosing approaches such as ADA and PPS-Pro will become the norm.


Agreed, I'm considering going PPS pro with my next tank just to see if I notice any different results. Then I'll have 1 EI tank and one PPS pro. However the PPS pro tank will have pretty easy to grow plants apart from a MC carpet.
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