Emersed growth advice?

[tetrin]

a peaceful stream flowing down a rocky wall...i bet you can sell it as an anti-stress device .
any ideas on the amphibians yet? i've seen newts being kept with neon tetras (i guess a somewhat sensitive species). don't know about their secretions though. i think this link came up before, but i stole the newt idea from this -
http://www.geocities.com/~amazingaquaria/fiftyp.htm

 

[czcz]

Thats a great tank. I remember your being inspired by the set up when you, rubysoho, and I were bouncing paludarium ideas around. When we PM'd then she shared some knowledge on newts as well, and I've done some reading on the Japanese and Chinese firebellied newts here: http://www.caudata.org/cc/index.shtml -- good site 'case you're still considering a paludarium. My LFS only has Chinese FBN and apparently 74-76F is too warm for them, but success of your linked tank with tropicals makes me think I can get away with them. I wish I could keep poison dart frogs but I'm pretty sure they'll affect the animals in the 8g. Firebellied toads maybe. It's likely I won't decide on pets until I have a functioning paludarium and nice, thick growth.

I'm still dreaming about a 40g breeder as a paludarium, by the way. In the back of my mind I'm thinking of this project as a baby step to something bigger, but maybe thats just more dreaming.

 

[tetrin]

wow, that's an awesome site. tons of info on these guys. i was frankly quite overwhelmed...i bet you can find something suitable for your temp-range from that selection; of course finding it locally may be a problem.

i sold off my 55g to another guy who wanted to build a paludarium for his wife . these damn cichlids are eating into all my spare time. but i'll definitely draw inspiration from this thread when i build one in future.

i'd still recommend starting off with the smaller setup. the experience really comes in handy when you eventually go off to bigger plans. hope to see some pix after the weekend...

 

[travis simonson]

I like the idea of starting small, especially with something as possibly complicated as a paludarium. Work your way up. Pretty soon you'll have moved past newts and be considering stocking things like pigs and gators in your latest monster paludarium

 

[czcz]

As I look at it I think I got greedy with the planting areas, as I am not sure there is adequate room for the plants to spread out. Moving forward anyway.

1 is approx 2.5" in diameter and 2" deep
2: 2.5x2
3: 2x1.5
4: 2x1.5
5: 2x2
6: 2x2.5
7: 2x2.5
8: 2x.5 (I plan on trying anubias here.)
9: 1.5x1
10: 2x1.5

 

[tetrin]

looks great to me . maybe 5, 6, 7 could be a little deeper than before this time?

 

[Xzap]

Great to see you back at it CZ

Why don't you paint "DANGER TOXIC CHEMICALS" on the bottom of it for the next thief !

Dave

 

[czcz]

Thanks Great suggestion on 5, 6, and 7 Arin. Maybe 4, 5, and 6 will be combined and deepened, so I know for sure I can try interesting crypts later. Going to stare at and mess with it a little tonight. First coat of cement should start tomorrow.

Dave -- How about I keep the 'gator Travis suggested in the 10g while the cement cures outside?

 

[tetrin]

i've seen crypts spread their roots out horizontally if enough depth is not provided. just a thought. you definitely have space to deepen those areas.
eagerly awaiting updates, but do not hurry...especially with the curing process. since your whole structure won't be water-logged, take some time and cure it well.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

OK... im just curious, but I really like this type of set up, but i do have a question. Concrete and Cement are not water tight materials, they are more like a sponge. Although it takes a while, concrete can get totally watter logged or at least allow water to pass through it. Over time it seems as though the styrafoam would deteriorate, or the concrete would. Is there some kind of curiing or protectant you will put on that?

 

[czcz]

Arin - Planting spaces you mentioned are >4" deep before concrete, and the rest are a little deeper -- I'll remeasure after the last coat. Submerging the entire structure for curing with water softener and daily twc. I'm definitely following your advice on cure time as well. Here's the second coat; I plan on one more.

jcarlilesiu - It's just styrofoam and concrete. I'm putting all my faith in success of DIY backgrounds using this method. The curing process will involve soaking the structure until it doesn't affect pH per cichlid-forum.com howtos and forums. Before this project I knew nothing about concrete and still know very little. If the concrete is hardened and cured to the point that it no longer affects alkalinity, does it still act like a sponge? How long is a while?

 

[tetrin]

looks exactly like a rock wall .
loving it!!
i'm pretty surprised at my concrete curing only after a week.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

looks exactly like a rock wall .
loving it!!
i'm pretty surprised at my concrete curing only after a week.

Concretes full curing period is 27 days. It may appear "cured" after a week, but the chemical reaction that takes place that makes cement "hard" takes 27 days total. Probably just looks cured on the outside

 

[tetrin]

jcarlilesiu, thanks for the info.
i used four extremely thin coats of cement (hydraulic), which stopped affecting my tap water after the mentioned period. so i guessed everything was alright. it's been about nine days since i introduced fish, and i'm yet to see any abnormalities. but just to be on the safe side, i've continued to do pwc's every three days or so, and will continue that for a month.

 

[Jchillin]

Just wanted to state for the record:

Arin - Joe...You're both doing an excellent job of describing the processes of creating such wonderful looking backgrounds.

The other thing is you're both turning me several shades of green

 

[czcz]

Thanks

 

[czcz]

I've been away and dumped a ton of KCl and a powerhead into the 10g for curing. pH is still over my test and have started daily total water changes last night. The whole structure is softer than I expected -- I needed to widen the end of the river as it some chambers were overflowing, and did it easily with my hands. I'm not so sure it will hold up for some amphibians. Hoping the concrete is significantly harder after it cures.

Tried assembling the setup while keeping sump in line (after water drains from the main its not recirculated), and for some reason the paludarium messes up my Durso standpipe unless flow rate is drastically lowered. I need to mess with the piping to figure it out.

I also stuck some plants into the planting areas to get an idea of how it will look, and even Anubias afzelli, C. beckettii, and C. wendtii spreads out and shades adjacent planting areas. The structure looks very weird with plants in it.. ugly even. I'm continuing with curing but am considering a more traditional emersed growth setup using potted plants, to get maximum space and complete drainage from each pot. This would mean no animals of course. I just have to stare at the thing for a while to decide what I'm going to do. :/

 

[tetrin]

don't worry about the concrete, i'm sure it'll be rock-hard when it cures. don't dump too much of a softening agent. i heard of someone's concrete falling off after using too much vinegar.
can't help you with the piping, i've no experience with sumps .
as to planting, once the lights are in place, i think the plants will try to reach up a little towards the light, creating lesser problems for you. and i'm sure the setup looks amazing, check it out with lights on top.
carry on....

 

[greenmaji]

I have read that saltwater will cure the concrete faster guys.. just a side note..

looking like great projects by the way..

 

[jcarlilesiu]

There is no such thing as "faster curing" of concrete. The oxygen in the water reacts with the portland cement (the portion of concrete that is the bonding agent) to create one mass. Its actually a chemical reaction, the only thing that I can think salt water would do is lower the temperature of the water in order for the curing time to decrese. This would make me skeptical of the stability of the bond. I would just let it cure naturally, and allow the chemical reaction to react how intended