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Old 02-04-2007, 04:20 AM   #1
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Glosso in a 10Gal

- Lighting: 2x 15W Screw-In Fluorescent
- Substrate: Silica sand w/ fert tabs placed intermittently (top), on bottom is old substrate (I'll get to that)
- CO2: DIY?
- Anything else?

Is my lighting sufficient for glosso?

The 10gal has mostly been fish only, and recently after moving all my fish out I decided I wanted plants.
I started with a Melon Sword, and some Java Moss & Anubias Nana on driftwood.
I noticed there was a lot of algae (some looked furry even, green & slimy to the touch. ID?) I scraped all I could off the tank walls w/ a magnet, and took all the rocks out and rinsed them w/ very hot water.
Does algae die when it dries out? I have been told they go through some sort of dormancy and survive out of water for long periods.

Anyway, I went to the LFS and bought some Glosso on impulse. Newly arrived. I took it home and put it in my 20gal planted, still potted, just as a sort of 'waiting room' until the 10 is ready.
Should I have acclimated it any certain way, as it had just arrived & just out of the shipping box?

I know glosso propogates best in finer substrate, so I got some white silica sand. In which I crushed a fert cone (not sure, bought it at LFS, should have asked) and placed the smaller pieces throughout the sand. I figured my old substrate was full of fish poop, and offered some encouraging nitrates, so I just put sand on top of it. Heh, hope that wasn't a bad idea. I'm hoping my plants will outgrow the algae.
How many plants do you reccomend to outgrow algae? I also read something about fast growing plants as starters? Any info on that?

I will probably construct DIY CO2 for the glosso. Any recomendations on how much? How many/size bottles that is... Diffusion method: Power-head. Any better DIY diffusion methods? Will the fast current have any adverse effects? I don't think I can turn the flow down, it is a maxi-jet.

I have Fluorish Comprehensive, will that help?

Any other tips?? Critique is encouraged! Help me out, TIA!
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Old 02-04-2007, 08:11 AM   #2
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Glosso needs lots of light and thus lots of CO2. At 3 wpg you're fine to go. Glosso propogates by runners. Keeping it potted will make it grow tall instead of spreading like the gorgeous carpet it should be. Each tiny stem should be planted about a 1/2 apart. It's painstaking work but will eventually root. The planting is MUCH easier using tweezers.

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Old 02-04-2007, 08:43 AM   #3
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You will need CO2. I would think (2) 1 liter bottles would work well.

What type of filter do you have on there?

30 watts of light may not be enough for the glosso to stay close to the substrate. I would just watch and see what happens. If it starts to grow upwards, I would go and get (2) 20 watt bulbs. Remember the WPG rule doesn't work for smaller tanks.

Plant it just like Brain has said. Clip off 4 to 6 leaves and plant atleast 2 of those into the substrate.

Having sand over your old substrate may not be a great idea depending on the size of your older substrate. The sand will, over time, move to the bottom of the tank. Also, leaving a lot of fish poo under the sand may lead to bad gases forming under the sand. You will have to either stir the substrate or find some MTS to stir it for you. Either way you are going to mix the substrate up.

I would not crush up any more fert tabs, instead you will need to dose the water column. Fert tabs are made to stay out of the water column and only feed the roots of plants.

As far as ferts, you will need a Micro and probably some K. Fluorish will serve for the Micro, but that leaves K that you still need. You may also need some N and P, but that depends on the fish, plants, and how much you are feeding them. I would look into EI dosing once you start injecting CO2.
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Old 02-04-2007, 11:26 AM   #4
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30-watts over 10 gallons is not that much. Remember that the WPG rule does not work with tanks this size... You would be better with 40-60-watts, IMO, though if every other condition is met you may still have a good amount of success with it... What is under the sand? I have found that success with glosso has as much to do with your substrate as your lighting and CO2.

If the lighting is not sufficient it will grow up instead of out (can get quite tall). IME, Glosso is a plant for intermediate to advanced planted tank owners. You need good CO2, good lighting (though it does not require huge lighting), good substrate and a good dosing routine (macros and micros)... I killed 3 shipments of the stuff before figuring it out...

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Old 02-04-2007, 03:40 PM   #5
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I agree with dapellegrini's assesment of the situation.

Not only is 30 watts not much over a 10 gallon tank, but you're also using screw in compact flourescents. These lights aren't as efficient since they are self ballasted and tend to loose a lot of light to restrike, especially if they are spirals instead of U-shaped.

You've probably got a solid medium low light tank with your current setup. At best the Glosso will survive, but there's little chance of it forming a nice carpet.
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:44 PM   #6
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Quick replies, appreciate it a lot!

I have MTS, a good amount.

All of this is coming as good news, as I'm mostly set. I am able to pick up higher lights if I don't see the growth I want.

The only thing is, is the ferts. Should I dose dry ferts? Or will liquid do? Liquid are the only ones I've seen, except for those dry canadian(?) ferts online, which I could look into, I suppose.

For planting, rkilling you said to plant stems with 4 to 6 leaves? What do you mean plant at least 2 of these? I'm sorry but I'm not exactly following, heh. Should I plant only the ones with visible roots?

BTW just FYI my sand substrate is about 2" deep mostly, if not deeper. Should I get more root tabs?

Also, any insight on CO2 diffusion tips?
Thanks for all your helps!
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:57 PM   #7
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Both liquid ferts and dry ferts will achieve the same goals, dry ferts are just less expensive and will last a very long time. I'd recommend heading over to Greg Watson's website and ordering dry ferts from him. It's where a large number of us get our dry ferts from since his prices are very reasonable.

For CO2 diffusion I'd recommend going with either the mist method or powered diffusion. Both will give you excellant results.
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Old 02-04-2007, 04:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarr
For planting, rkilling you said to plant stems with 4 to 6 leaves? What do you mean plant at least 2 of these? I'm sorry but I'm not exactly following, heh. Should I plant only the ones with visible roots?
Cut up the potted plant into stems of 4 to 6 leaves. When you plant them, put two of the leaves on each stem into the substrate to anchor the plant.
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:50 PM   #9
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OK, So I have 750mL of DIY CO2 currently lined into the intake. It has yet to start bubbling. I used one of those Nutrafin CO2 Activator + Stabilizer packets, with some sugar + warm water. Can anyone tell me what, essentially, are the 'Activator + Stabilizer'?

Also, how did I plant them?

It looks sort of piddly but it took me HOURS, no joke, to plant those things. Man, I hope my efforts will pay off. My back hurts still, and I'm 17! I can't imagine older people being able to do this, no offense, but tedious is an understatement.

BTW the Banana Plant is in there to help fight off any possible algae. There is also a sword floating temporarily, I couldnt find anywhere I'd want to plant it...
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Old 02-06-2007, 11:56 PM   #10
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I'm not a Glosso expert, but looks good to me. I see a lot of patience in there.

In the second pic, the teeny Glosso makes the rock look like a giant cliff...looks cool!

Shortly I am going to be upgrading my 5 gal with 10 watts screw in PC to a 10 gallon with 2 15 watt fluorescent strips....wasn't planning on Glosso but it should be interesting to compare what happens with the two tanks. Keep the log going and I'll be starting one soon for mine. I'm planning Eco complete substrate and DIY CO2 as well.
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Old 02-07-2007, 09:34 AM   #11
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The Activator is 1/8tsp of Yeast (most likely Champagne Yeast) and the Stabilizer is 1tsp of Baking Soda. Depending on how hard your water is you may only need half of the Stabilizer, or none at all. Too much can kill the yeast just as easily as hot water.

Excellant job on the planting. That is exactly how it's supposed to look after being freshly planted. Congrats.
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Old 02-07-2007, 06:35 PM   #12
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Aah thank you Purrbox! I appreciate the positive reinforcement.

I have a question though, will my sand (silica blasting sand) contribute phosphate that my plants can use? Where have I heard silica sand gives off phosphates... Can plants use silicates?

Is there anywhere I can get ferts I can use elsewhere than my LFS?
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:12 AM   #13
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No idea on the sand/phosphate issue. The only thing that I've heard of specifically using silicates is diatoms.

As far as ferts go, you can get the Seachem Flourish line at DrsFosterSmith.com, ThatPetPlace.com, or BigAlsOnline.com. If you'd rather go the dry fert route, I'd highly recommend ordering from GregWatson.com.
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:48 AM   #14
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Quick Question -

For CO2 inline w/ my HOB, should I take the bag of carbon out? There is no carbon in it, but for diffusion purposes, would anything be able to hold the bubbles back and negate any CO2 that I should be worried about?
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Old 02-09-2007, 09:42 PM   #15
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The activated carbon shouldn't make a difference one way or another as far as the CO2 goes. You just want to minimize and waterfalls or turbulence in the filter (and tank for that matter) to avoid gassing off the CO2. The only way it could make difference is if the CO2 wasn't fully disolved before reaching the media and the media caused it to break the surface instead of staying in the water to continue dissolving.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:16 AM   #16
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Hah, well I guess I'll treat this thread than as my 10gal log.


2/11 - added some clippings today. A small (but healthy) bit of Java Moss, inbetween the petrified wood chunks. Sunset Hygro (I think), as well as Pygmy Chains and a type of Bacopa (ID?)

sorry if pics are small; Bacopa center, Hygro right of rocks, Pygmy right side of tank. Banana plant
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Old 03-22-2007, 01:42 AM   #17
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Update: Some pics

Feb 22nd - Xenotaca Eiseni fry. Active buggers.


Feb 27th - First photo-captured pearling. Temporary problem w/ diatoms


March 21st - Currently.


Now have: Melon Sword, Driftwood w/ Java Fern + Moss, Pennywort (?? Looks like rooted lilly pads, some is floating w/ Riccia, bright green), Pygmy Chain Sword, Stargrass (coming in nicely). Along with Duppy, the double-sword tail guppy.

I like how this is coming, I'm feeling more and more satisfied as it comes along. I've trimmed (most) of the glosso about, three times? I've decided to let the right-most glosso grow, as I'm going for a more forested look on the right side.

The hardest part -- Deciding on what fish to keep in there!! Duppy is only temporary, perhaps. I want a real centerpiece. Betta? Eh, I'm content with my one betta. Festivum? Too big? Gourami? Those tiny sparkling gouramies?? Oh, I'm lost! Any advice??
LMK what you think of my progress etc.
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:21 AM   #18
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Looks like it's coming in nicely. Good work.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:41 AM   #19
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What about some Killifish? They're excellant for small planted tanks.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:16 PM   #20
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If you are running CO2 and adding ferts, I would consider upgrading your lighting. If you were to increase the wattage, that would keep the Glosso from growing up and therefore start forming a carpet rather then a forest.
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