How to plant

[pankelephant]

I'm one UPS delivery away from finally starting my 55g! I've read every thread I can find about how to start a planted tank, but I can't find anything that tells me how to physically put the plants into the substrate. Is it as simple as just sticking them in? What tools do I need? I'm going to be using a lot of grassy plants - how do I know how much I can split them up? What about anubias-type plants? How do I plant moss? Should I fill my tank before planting or after? Should I put root tabs in as I'm planting or later? When do I start dosing fertilizers (I intend to use liquid for the time being)? I don't plan to add fish for a while - do I have to worry about cycling the tank right now?

As you can see, I have a lot of questions that don't seem to be answered in the beginners' guides. Those are usually more high-level and I need the minutiae. If someone wants to answer everything and offer any other tips, great. But I'd also be happy if you could just point me to a tutorial or three.

Thanks!

[dragonfisher33]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

I'm one UPS delivery away from finally starting my 55g! I've read every thread I can find about how to start a planted tank, but I can't find anything that tells me how to physically put the plants into the substrate. Is it as simple as just sticking them in? What tools do I need? I'm going to be using a lot of grassy plants - how do I know how much I can split them up? What about anubias-type plants? How do I plant moss? Should I fill my tank before planting or after? Should I put root tabs in as I'm planting or later? When do I start dosing fertilizers (I intend to use liquid for the time being)? I don't plan to add fish for a while - do I have to worry about cycling the tank right now?

As you can see, I have a lot of questions that don't seem to be answered in the beginners' guides. Those are usually more high-level and I need the minutiae. If someone wants to answer everything and offer any other tips, great. But I'd also be happy if you could just point me to a tutorial or three.

Thanks!

for big plants you can always stick them in using your fingers. but for smaller plants, i recommend you get a tweezer. it can be small tweezers that people use for cosmetic needs or if you want to, you can always find them on ebay for 2-3 dollars (i recommend the curved ones). anubias need to be attached to something and should NOT be planted into the substrate as the rhizome will rot thus killing the plants. It's better for you to look up youtube videos on how to plant dwarf hairgrass. it gives the recommendation on portion sizes when it comes to grassy plants.

moss can be held down by small rocks or attach to something, ie driftwood. eventually they will grow and anchor themselves.

depending on the plants when it comes to dosing. but the rule of thumb is usually once a week.

[Rivercats]

It's easier to plant if you drop your water level to 3/4 or 1/2. Also getting a pair of 12" or even 24" stainless steel planting tweezers will indeed make planting easier espeically in deeper tanks. You have to get the hang of using them but once you do you'll be glad to have them.

As for DHG you split clumps into 1/2" to 1" pieces and plant them about an inch apart in a checkerboard fashion. The allows them to fill in much faster.

As for ferts... what type of lighting and bulbs do you have? Are you going to use CO2 or Liquid Carbon? Depending on the light and CO2/liquid carbon ferts can be simple as using liquid ferts 1 or 2x a week or using dry ferts in a balanced macro and micro dosing regime done daily. If indeed planting DHG you need high light, CO2 or Liquid carbon, and a dry fert dosing using either PPS-Pro or El.

The tank still needs to be cycled but plants can help with faster cycling as they use ammonia and nitrates.

[pankelephant]

Great info!

for big plants you can always stick them in using your fingers. but for smaller plants, i recommend you get a tweezer. it can be small tweezers that people use for cosmetic needs or if you want to, you can always find them on ebay for 2-3 dollars (i recommend the curved ones). anubias need to be attached to something and should NOT be planted into the substrate as the rhizome will rot thus killing the plants. It's better for you to look up youtube videos on how to plant dwarf hairgrass. it gives the recommendation on portion sizes when it comes to grassy plants.

moss can be held down by small rocks or attach to something, ie driftwood. eventually they will grow and anchor themselves.

depending on the plants when it comes to dosing. but the rule of thumb is usually once a week.

With regard to the anubias, really what I'm trying to find out is if I can split the plant up - cutting the rhizome? I've read about this but can't find anything specific.

Originally Posted by Rivercats

It's easier to plant if you drop your water level to 3/4 or 1/2. Also getting a pair of 12" or even 24" stainless steel planting tweezers will indeed make planting easier espeically in deeper tanks. You have to get the hang of using them but once you do you'll be glad to have them.

As for DHG you split clumps into 1/2" to 1" pieces and plant them about an inch apart in a checkerboard fashion. The allows them to fill in much faster.

As for ferts... what type of lighting and bulbs do you have? Are you going to use CO2 or Liquid Carbon? Depending on the light and CO2/liquid carbon ferts can be simple as using liquid ferts 1 or 2x a week or using dry ferts in a balanced macro and micro dosing regime done daily. If indeed planting DHG you need high light, CO2 or Liquid carbon, and a dry fert dosing using either PPS-Pro or El.

The tank still needs to be cycled but plants can help with faster cycling as they use ammonia and nitrates.

I have an Odyssea T5HO 4x54 fixture. The lights are stock, 6500k I think. I will probably replace the bulbs, but I'm trying not buy things before I need them. I'm going to use liquid carbon and would like to use liquid ferts for now. I'll probably switch to PPS-Pro after the summer when we'll be home more - for now we're gone almost every weekend and I don't want to start something that will require daily maintenance.

I'm not planning on DHG, but I am looking at Echinodorus tenellus, Eleocharis belem, Lilaeopsis mauritana, Cryptocoryne parva, among others. There will be lots of crypts. Can I grow those with just liquids (and tabs if necessary)?

As for cycling - I'll have media from a friend's 100+ gallon tank, which should give me an instant cycle, or very close to it. What I'm wondering is if cycling is just for the fish, or do plants need it too? It seems logical that it's just for the fish, but I've seen lots of threads where people talk a lot about cycling as part of planting. I'm not going to add fish for at least a month after the tank is planted.

Thanks!

[Rivercats]

Plants aid in cycling by using ammonia and nitrates so adding them right away is a good thing.

With a high light tank and using liquid carbon which you will need to use a higher daily dose due to the high light. you are going to have to dose more than liquid ferts since the plants will use and need alot more ferts, both micro and macro. You can still dose PPS-Pro only 5 days by adjusting to a 5 day schedule. If you don't want to do this I would recommend only using 2 bulbs instead of 4 to start.

Eleocharis belem is Dwarf Hair Grass (DHG). This plant needs high light, CO2 or liquid carbon (most will say CO2), and a good fert regime. Many of the plants you listed only need med to lower light so if you use all 4 bulbs you are going to want to add some fast growing stem plants to your list.

As for crypts, they are going to need to have root tabs since they are heavy root feeders.

Also if your going to seed you filter with some established media you don't want to wait a month before adding fish. If you do this your very likely going to loose some of the BB since there will be no ammonia source in the tank. Just something to think about.

[pankelephant]

Originally Posted by Rivercats

Plants aid in cycling by using ammonia and nitrates so adding them right away is a good thing.

With a high light tank and using liquid carbon which you will need to use a higher daily dose due to the high light. you are going to have to dose more than liquid ferts since the plants will use and need alot more ferts, both micro and macro. You can still dose PPS-Pro only 5 days by adjusting to a 5 day schedule. If you don't want to do this I would recommend only using 2 bulbs instead of 4 to start.

Eleocharis belem is Dwarf Hair Grass (DHG). This plant needs high light, CO2 or liquid carbon (most will say CO2), and a good fert regime. Many of the plants you listed only need med to lower light so if you use all 4 bulbs you are going to want to add some fast growing stem plants to your list.

As for crypts, they are going to need to have root tabs since they are heavy root feeders.

Also if your going to seed you filter with some established media you don't want to wait a month before adding fish. If you do this your very likely going to loose some of the BB since there will be no ammonia source in the tank. Just something to think about.

Some of these names are confusing. I thought the plant commonly referred to as Dwarf Hair Grass is Eleocharis acicularis and that E. belem and E. parvula are different plants. Should I assume they have the same light/carbon requirements?

I didn't know PPS-Pro could be other than daily - I much prefer that to liquid ferts. Can you point me to some reference info so I can calculate what I need to dose and when? All I can find is info for daily dosing. Can I assume that if I need more carbon, the algae will tell me?

My lights allow me to have either two or four bulbs at a time. I figured I'd use two at first with maybe four for a couple of hours mid-day. I have lots of ambient sunlight to deal with, so that will be a bit of a guessing game at first. I will be using some stem plants as well, I just don't know which yet. The options are kind of overwhelming.

As for seeding - I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. What I'm trying to say is that I intend to plant my tank soon-ish and let it run and grow for at least a month or so. At that point things should be settled in the tank (i.e. I'll stop moving things ). That is when I will add the seeded media and the fish. I know these should happen together so I don't lose the cycle.

I really appreciate the time you're taking to help me with this. Also, if someone steals your koi in the middle of the night, it wasn't me.

[Rivercats]

Most are all dubbed dwarf hair grass as many don't know the difference. I'm not a big fan but am pretty sure they all have the same requirements.

There is nowhere you can find adjusting for PPS-Pro but it's easy to figure out. But before getting into that I have to tell you that until the tank matures and water chemistry settles you'll have to monitor weekly levels of nitrates and phophates and adjust them as needed. I dose PPS-Pro but due to the fact I have very high light and run a low nitrate- high phosphate tank with extra micros I dose very differently. What you can do to start is figure out how much of each micro macro solution you'd dose daily which is 1ml per 10 gallons. Then say you only want to dose 5 days all you need to do is add up the number of ml's you'd dose of each solution daily and add them onto your day 5th of dosing. Or your 1st day of dosing, whichever works for you. It's not hard and you'll find dry ferts so much cheaper.

As for the liquid carbon... first I suggest you buy some Metricide 14 which is glutaraldehyde, the same active ingredient in Excel. Get a gallon which you can find for around $20 plus shipping and mix it with 1 gallon of RO to get 2 gallons of solution for very cheap compared to buying a name brand. You need to store it all in a totally light blocking opaque containers since light breaks down Glut very quickly. If you go this route be sure to throw the small activator bottle that comes with the gallon of Glut away. You never use it. Also when you start using all 4 bulbs I suggest you use 1ml Glut to every 5 gallons of tank water.

[pankelephant]

Originally Posted by Rivercats

There is nowhere you can find adjusting for PPS-Pro but it's easy to figure out. But before getting into that I have to tell you that until the tank matures and water chemistry settles you'll have to monitor weekly levels of nitrates and phophates and adjust them as needed.

How do I know what's needed? Are there basic numbers as with ammonia and nitrites? I have the API master test kit - I'll pick up the others as well.

What you can do to start is figure out how much of each micro macro solution you'd dose daily which is 1ml per 10 gallons. Then say you only want to dose 5 days all you need to do is add up the number of ml's you'd dose of each solution daily and add them onto your day 5th of dosing. Or your 1st day of dosing, whichever works for you. It's not hard and you'll find dry ferts so much cheaper.

Can I take that to mean I can adjust it for other situations as well? For instance - can I dose ever other day by doubling the amount needed for a daily dose? Are there any negative effects for doing this long-term?

As for the liquid carbon... first I suggest you buy some Metricide 14 which is glutaraldehyde, the same active ingredient in Excel. Get a gallon which you can find for around $20 plus shipping and mix it with 1 gallon of RO to get 2 gallons of solution for very cheap compared to buying a name brand.

Great - saving money is good!

[Rivercats]

That is the general dosing amounts for daily PPS-Pro dosing. 1ml solution per 10g water. I also suggest buying 3 dosing bottles from GLA so you can mix the micro mix in one, nitrates in one, and phosphates and potassium in another. That way you can adjust your dosing levels of nitrates and phosphates as needed which you can't do if you mix them together like PPS-Pro directions say. I've learned alot of tricks over the years. It is quite safe to dose different ways as long as you keep your levels of nitrate at 10-20ppms (I prefer 10ppm but in all green plant tanks 15ppm is alittle better IMO), then phosphates at .5-1.0ppm of phosphates. So if you want to dose every other day that will work just fine. Oh when you pick up a phosphate test kit it would be a good idea to pick up an API Gh and Kh 2 test kit. You want your levels at around 4 but alittle above is fine and you'll notice the PPS-Pro recipe calls for MgSO4 magnesium but if your Gh is at least 4 you don't need to add that to your macro mix.

[pankelephant]

I have the Gh and Kh kit. Kh is 1 and Gh is 2. It's kind of ridiculous. I still haven't figured out if I need to do anything about that. But I'll be ordering from GLA in the morning, so at least that's done.

[Rivercats]

In a planted tank a Kh and Gh of 4 is recommended. If the Gh is under 4 you will need to add MgSO4, magnesium to your macro mix. Plants need magnesium. Also with a Kh of 1 means you have little calcium buffer in your water which means you could be prone to having Ph swings.

[pankelephant]

Well, the KH is one of the reasons I'm not adding fish right away. My pH is pretty neutral and I'll be keeping soft water fish anyway; I just have to figure out whether I'll be experiencing swings that are dangerous enough to have to deal with.

[Rivercats]

Originally Posted by pankelephant

Well, the KH is one of the reasons I'm not adding fish right away. My pH is pretty neutral and I'll be keeping soft water fish anyway; I just have to figure out whether I'll be experiencing swings that are dangerous enough to have to deal with.

I have to watch mine pretty close and add just enough magnesium and calcium to keep my Kh and Gh at 4. I too have mainly soft water loving fish and many plants that also prefer it.

[Dallascowboys16]

as to fast growing stem plants i would have to say that moneywort (Bacopa monnieri) is my favorite of all of the fast growing stem plants. I grow it very successfully in my 55 gallon with only 110 watts of 6500k light. I think that it would be a very good fit for your tank.

[pankelephant]

Originally Posted by Dallascowboys16

as to fast growing stem plants i would have to say that moneywort (Bacopa monnieri) is my favorite of all of the fast growing stem plants. I grow it very successfully in my 55 gallon with only 110 watts of 6500k light. I think that it would be a very good fit for your tank.

That's lovely! I'm trying to do a nature 'scape and that'll fit quite nicely with my theme. Thanks!