I believe my nemesis is called black beard/hair algea

[PITT]

I'm brand new to the board...relatively new to live plants aquariums.

I've had my 50 gallon for about a year now. I've gone through the "rookie" mistakes and have destroyed an entire tank of plants w/ poor judgement and bad advice. I've done really well the past 5 months or so and the tank has looked good. My plants are reproducing constantly and haven't had any unexpected deaths (fish or plants) and have avoided green/dull water and algea blooms.

I think i'm doing well for a beginner...low budget...then comes the black hair!

It's gone crazy! it's on all the plant leaf edges. I got the advice to add Mollies. I added some since I didn't have many fish and they don't seem to be doing much. I've kept feeding to a minimum (learned from the first go round) and haven't changed my routine (lights/co2 formula/water changes/etc) for the past few months.


Any advice? I tried to pull it off but it seemed to be doing more harm than good.

 

[rich311k]

It is generally caused by fluctuating or insufficient levels of CO2. What are your tank stats? Size, light, plants, Nitrates, PH, KH, Phosphate?

Welcome to AA!!!

 

[JDogg]

ok first off to answer you questions and help with your problem we need info about your tank...

how heavily planted is your tank?

list off all the kinds of plants you can...

list off all the fish you have...

how much light do you have (watts) and what kind of bulb? Fluorescent CF, incandescent...

Are you adding CO2? if so how? Pressurized, DIY...

what if anything are you dosing, and how much

need some test results, if you do not have all the test kits to answer these results i highly recommend you go out and get the kits (preferably liquid reagent kits, not dip strips)

Ammonia=
Nitrite=
Nitrate=
Phosphate=
PH=
KH=
GH=

can you post a picture?

 

[PITT]

Stats throw me off a bit. reading all the stats is a little intimidating. I'm not sure on everything thing but here goes...

55 gallons

lights (2 sets) - one is the one they suckered me into it holds two bulbs that are "U" shaped and i believe each is 55 Watts - second is a shop light rack and it is holding 2 40 watt aquaplant florescent or some similar name

CO2 is DIY - I have 4 2-liter bottles, one changed every week.

PH 6.8ish
nitrite - nitrate - amonia all hoover @ about 0 (yes liquid chemistry set...not strips)

I have the lights on a timer - 10 hours per day - no direct sunlight.

Plants - not heavily planted. about 25% of the tank is Anakaris (SP?) and i have fallen for some corkscrew grass. i have a corner of guppie grass that i keep real low. I have some moss - java i think. I think i have some water sprite too. the rest is random.

The fish...
6 Mollies they are the biggest. I have a couple algae eaters (plakasamus), 1 chinese algae eater, some striped neons, couple glass fish. Pretty random...

I also have a couple clams, ghost shrimp, and snails.

Picture...I'll try to figure out how to post is shortly

ok...can't figure out how to paste a pic.

the rest of the stats i don't know. (KH GH)

I change water about 1/3 a week. I use PRIME to treat my tap water and use aquarium salt w/ the change too.

 

[rkilling1]

Your problem is most likely fluctuating CO2 levels. I would bump up the CO2 bottle change out to 2 bottles every week to make the CO2 levels more consistent. It's hard to maintain consistent levels with DIY on such a large tank, but it can be done. Letting a bottle go for 4 weeks probably is not a good idea.

You are also going to have look into NO3 dosing. Having 0 NO3's is not a good thing in a planted tank

EDIT: I almost forgot. Welcome to AA.

 

[Purrbox]

Based on the description of your DIY CO2 setup, I suspect that low fluctuating CO2 levels is indeed the cause of your problem. You can get a pretty good estimate of CO2 levels by plugging the pH and KH of your tank into a formula (there are also charts and calculators for those who don't like math). Another way to get an estimate is to compare the pH of a sample of your tank water that has either been aerated for an hour or left sitting for 24hrs. This would ensure that that all the CO2 has been gassed off and by comparing the numbers we could get a rough guess as to whether or not you have enough CO2. Generally for that size tank I would expect you to have to have at least two more 2 Liter Bottles and be changing the mix in half of them every week (if using Champagne yeast you could go every 1 1/2 - 2 weeks).

Another problem is that your Nitrate is bottoming out. If you Nitrate is bottoming out, your Phosphates are likely to bottoming out as well. What is your current fertilizing routine (specific ferts, amount dosed, frequency dosed)?

And WELCOME to AA!

 

[PITT]

For CO2...i used to have a small tank and the formula i used for the bottle (2 cup sugar 1/4 tsp yeast) is the same. back then i only changed it once a month...approx...when it ran out. I'm working on assuming each will last one month...that is where i came up w/ one a week.

I haven't change the formula or frequecy of change...so i'm hoping it's not inconsistancy w/ the CO2.

I thought Nitrates where bad? no? I though i was striving for 0's or close to it on the test kit

 

[rkilling1]

I was just rereading your post and didn't realize you had TWO 55 watt CF bulbs. Man, that's a lot of light. That puts you at about 3.5 WPG.

What fertilizers are you dosing?


EDIT:
"I thought Nitrates where bad? no? I though i was striving for 0's or close to it on the test kit"

NO3's, at low levels, are not harmful to fish, but your plants need them to grow. ie N is plant food. (Your plants need many Nutrients, N only being one of them) A lot of planted tanks strive for 10 -30 PPM NO3.

 

[PITT]

I use Lily Gro plant food. it is a tablet i break up. I use about 3 tablets but i only use the bigger pieces so about one tablet total...i then "plant" the pieces around the tank.

Should I up my CO2? How do i test for KH?

"Another way to get an estimate is to compare the pH of a sample of your tank water that has either been aerated for an hour or left sitting for 24hrs. This would ensure that that all the CO2 has been gassed off and by comparing the numbers we could get a rough guess as to whether or not you have enough CO2."

Lost me...so i change the water...test the PH and then test it an hour later and 24 hours later? So once I make the change and do the tests...how do i know what hte results mean?

Is there such thing as over CO2ing it...as long as i keep the ph up?

 

[Purrbox]

The formula for you mix sounds fine. By letting the bottles run until they are completely done, you're inducing a greater amount of fluctuation to the CO2 levels. DIY CO2 production starts out really fast/high the first few days and then slowly tapers off until it stops a 2-4 weeks after it was started. By switching them out a little early, you can removes some of the fluctuation. This combined with probably having an insufficient number of bottles, will result in the low fluctuating levels of CO2 that often induces BBA. You'll also see this more often as the cooler weather rolls in, as the bottles will probably be in a cooler room resulting in lower CO2 production rates.

You want as close to 0 Nitrates in a Non Planted tank. However Nitrates are one of the Macro Nutrients (food sources) for plants. You run out of Nitrates, your plants stop growing, and algae takes over.

 

[PITT]

Wow you guys are awesome...I wish I would have came here a year ago...

So yes i do have 2 55 CF's and the extra shop light...too much? Someone told me to shoot for 3 WPG "or a little higher if you want to be safe"

My old formula of 1 month was letting it run completly out first...makes sense to change them earlier to stabilize the amount.

 

[rkilling1]

NO that's not too much, but you have to take actions based on your lighting. If you plan to have such high lighting, you will have to insure your nutrients are sufficent to keep up with the plant growth or else you will end up with algae.

Here is a list of the Nutrients:

Macro's are: N, P, K, C, S, Mg, and Ca

Micro's are: Fe, Mn, Mg, Zn, Cu, Mo, and B.

Macro meaning the plant will consume more or need more then that of the micro.

 

[PITT]

NO that's not too much, but you have to take actions based on your lighting. If you plan to have such high lighting, you will have to insure your nutrients are sufficent to keep up with the plant growth or else you will end up with algae.

Here is a list of the Nutrients:

Macro's are: N, P, K, C, S, Mg, and Ca

Micro's are: Fe, Mn, Mg, Zn, Cu, Mo, and B.

Macro meaning the plant will consume more or need more then that of the micro.

So do I test for all those...make sure the fertilizer has them all? Should I take the extra shop light off? The advice I got was a lot of WPG for small time...low WPG for long time = algae.

 

[rich311k]

I would suggest using less light for the moment. You don't have that many plants in there. You should add a lot more to keep ahead of the algae. The plants you have are not high light so they could do with less. The CO2 will be less important as well, until you get this figured out.

What kind of bulbs are in the CF fixture? It should say right on the bulbs.

Read the stickies at the top of the forum they should help you get an idea of what we are talking about. You need to come up with a fertilization plan. I would also highly recommend getting a KH kit as soon as possible.

 

[rkilling1]

You do not test for most of them. When you get up to the high light tank setup, you know your plants are going to need the Micros, so you just dose those.

Mg, Ca, and S are contained in your water supply. ie when you do a PWC your replenish these. Some do have to dose for them. The Plants will tell you when the need arises. Most do not test for these.

N, C and P are commenly tested for.

K is another one that is added based on plant growth or lack there of and the amount of light you have. ie not normally tested.

PS. Rich makes a valid point. With the amount of light you have. It would be a good idea to reduce it down a little until you can better handle it or should I say, get the proper ferts in.

 

[PITT]

What kind of bulbs are in the CF fixture? It should say right on the bulbs.

.

They are GE bulbs. They don't say much on the bulb. Like a C and E and 700 but don't list wattage or anything. the sticker on the housing says they are 55 watts.


So tone down the amount of light...

Do you mean remove one of the fixtures or use them for less time?

 

[Purrbox]

Okay let me clarify. Take a sample of your tank water and put it in a glass. Either aerate it for an hour (bubble air into the sample using an airpump and airstone) or let it sit for 24 hrs. Test the sample for pH. You can then compare the results from the glass (should be higher) to the test you preformed earlier ( pH 6.8 ).

There aren't test for most of the nutrients unfortunately.

Nitrates (N) - You're already testing this (NO3)
Phosphates (P) - Seachem makes a really good test kit (PO4) for this
Potassium (K) - No hobbiest grade kit available, but nearly impossible to overdose
Magnessium (Mg) & Calcium (Ca) - Tested as a whole (GH)
Carbon (CO2) - Estimated by testing KH & pH
The rest don't have hobbiest grade kits available that are accurate enough to be useful. Usually the GH & KH testkits are sold together and may be referred to as Total Hardness (GH) and Carbonate Hardness (KH).

Sounds like your only dosing root tabs. This will help, but with the amount of light that you're dealing with you're going to want to dose the water column too. For this you'll need a good trace fert (doses most of the Micronutrients, some are already in your tap water), Nitrates, Phosphates, and Potassium. As long as your water is reasonably hard, you shouldn't need to dose Magnesium or Calcium. I would recommend picking up the necessary ferts from www.GregWatson.com, as this will be the most cost effective way to dose your tank. You'd want CSM+B (traces), KNO3 (mostly Nitrates with some Potassium), KH2PO4 (Phosphates), and K2SO4 (Potassium). There are calculators available that we can help you use to figure out how much to dose.

Also if you haven't yet, check out the sticky at the top of the forum. There are links to lots of great threads on all aspects of planted tanks and some good articles too. These will help clear up a lot of the questions that you are running into right now. Feel free to ask questions on anything that still isn't clear after reading those.

 

[PITT]

Thank you everyone. I'm a little overwhelmed right now but plugging along through the stickies I think I'm picking up a ton tonight. This is by far the most usefull sight I have found.

Koodos to the admins and choice of ssticks..soooo much advice that seems to be exactly what i'm looking for. Iamb trying to really make a strong effort this time around and have been doing well to the curse of the black beard.

Hopefully I can learn enough to come back and give advice! ~

 

[rich311k]

So tone down the amount of light...

Do you mean remove one of the fixtures or use them for less time?

I mean turn off the shop lights for a while until the rest gets figured out. Ten hours a day of lights on is fine. That is what I run.

 

[Purrbox]

If you're going to cut back on light until you get the rest of what you need ready (definately something that I agree would be wise) then you'll want to remove one of the fixtures. May want to cut down the photo period to only 8 hours at the same time.