I'm confused about coral/carbonates in a planted tank.

[MuktiMom]

Hi - I love this forum! I would appreciate a clarification on using coral or carbonates in the substrate of freshwater planted aquariums. I'm starting out with easy plants under moderate light.

We do have lots of coral sand around here, I live in the US Virgin Islands.

I am setting up three tanks: 10, 30, and 45 gal as planted tanks, but am having trouble finding the substrates talked about most. No Turface-type products, no Safe T Sorb (only Oil Dri), so far no pool filter sand, either. We are short on retail outlets, and shipping substrates here is cost prohibitive.

I considered cat litter, but worry about it turning to mush on me, though it seems someone did suggest mixing it 50/50 with coral sand to buffer it, but it seems that there is concern about using carbonates in the planting medium.

So, in the interests of saving money and sanity, I'm leaning towards Miracle Grow Organic soil capped with coral sand and then a cichlid gravel that has shell in it, that a local pet store carries. After the tanks cycle, I'm planning on live bearers and a school of rummy nose tetras, plus inverts like the burrowing snails, and cherry shrimp. I would like to turn the 10 gal into a brackish tank after the plants get established.

Thank you for your patience and perserverence if you've read this far. I'm trying to plan long-term here, and I would appreciate your suggestions and opinion of my plan.

Thanks!

 

[Readingexcalibur]

Nicely written post, I do not know the answer, but following along to learn!

 

[Rivercats]

This is interesting. You could just do the coral sand mix without soil for your brackish I'm pretty sure. Not my speciality area so hopefully someone else can help with that. But for the soil tank you need to just find some very small gravel if possible without any coral in it. Don't know how small an island your on but is there a type of garden store or rock quarry there? If so I'd check there to see if they have any small gravel available. Another option that again I don't know if you have access to is going to a freshwater creek and collecting small gravel. You'd need to clean the heck out of it to rid it of any unwanted critters or plant/algae but it could work. My dad used to do that when I was a kid in the 50's and 60's. You are going to have to think outside the box alittle. If there are any lawn and garden areas in stores there or anywhere that sells plants they too will often times have small decorative plant gravel.

 

[Rivercats]

I forgot to add that plants won't grow in brackish water and most won't grow in a tank high in GH/PH which is what coral sand and gravel would make it.

 

[MuktiMom]

Thank you very much for your answer. The only gravel I have located is called cichlid gravel and has shell in it. There is gravel at our pebbly beaches. I could take the collander to sift the smallest gravel. Not much in the way of creeks here anymore, the sugar cane cultivation caused a chain reaction so that we ended up without streams.

I am happy that I can put the coral sand in the freshwater tank that will gradually be made brackish after the plants become established. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[MuktiMom]

Aha!

I forgot to add that plants won't grow in brackish water and most won't grow in a tank high in GH/PH which is what coral sand and gravel would make it.

Aha! This is the info I was looking for, thanks! Will continue to pursue small gravel sources. It is daunting to think of sifting the 100 or so pounds I would need for all of these tanks... But then I have been thinking about spending some time at the beach.

 

[aqua_chem]

I would like to point out that there is a difference between brackish water and really freaking hard water. While plants don't do well in brackish water, they can do well in hard water. You can try sculpting a tank around that using plants like vals and crypts, with the former adapted to do especially well in harder water. You can always give it a shot and see if anything sticks.

 

[MuktiMom]

Is 'hard water' the result of coral, shells and coral sand? I guess that is what builds up as the carbonate dissoves in the water. I used to live in Calistoga where we had our pipes completely occluded from the mineral water. I never think of hard water here, because we catch all our water from rain. It goes into fiberglass cisterns. Now I understand more completely what will develop in a coral sand planted tank... I can find the hard water thrivers. I'm stoked about this because I have a bunch of crypts on the way, I'm totally relieved!

What's a 'val'? And do you recommend the soil beneath the sand? And fertilizer tabs under the plants too?

 

[Rivercats]

Personally I like dirted tanks and with organic dirt the peat in it can in time help lower/soften the water. I have dirt in a couple of my tanks, one being my 220g. Here's a link so you can look at the different Vallisneria's... Vallisneria.

Dwarf Sagittaria, Hornwort, and Anubia's will do well in harder water. I had them in a tank with our straight tap water which is GH 13 and KH 10, with a Ph over 8.
I still use root tabs in my dirted tanks, the crypts will appreciate them.

 

[aqua_chem]

Val is short for vallisneria, and entire genus of tall, wispy plants.

By 'hard water' I'm referring to water with high concentrations of calcium and carbonate, which are the main components of coral products and many shells. These components will slowly leach out and raise your tanks hardness and pH. Brackish water, on the other hand, usually has significant Ca and CO3 but also has high levels of NaCl salt.

Soil beneath the sand is a solid plan. Root tabs are an option as well.

Also, most livebearers like hard water as well.

 

[MuktiMom]

Things are getting better and better, thank you for this information and resource. I am happy to learn that my favorite fish and plants all like hard water! The lights arrived today for the tanks, so we are all set. Good to go. Out digging up sand and hauling it home, along with the soil is on tomorrow's list of to-dos. Looked at those 'vals'. Very cool looking! Thanks again

 

[ztigris]

When I went to find pool sand I found out it's just silver sand. At least here. Any place that carries quick crete will have silver sand.

 

[MuktiMom]

I'm happy to hear it, we have quick crete available all over the place, here. Will ask for the silver sand instead of pfs. I wonder how clean the silver sand is?

 

[ztigris]

It only took a couple of rinses and one bag was about $8.00. It's way more than you need. It won't be white but that's okay nothing stays white for long after the fish and plants get in there.

 

[MuktiMom]

8 bucks and a couple of rinses is a small price to pay to hold down the dirt. Thanks!

 

[ztigris]

Right? although I do wish it was black sand instead, I'm overall happy. Don't forget the red clay for iron.

 

[MuktiMom]

Thanks to Everyone Who Responded

I finally found pfs at $28.00 a 50 pound bag, so I only got one. Yippee for that one! I added coral sand to harden up the water a bit, and because one bag wasn't enough.

There is no Miracle Grow Organic available so I got Tropical organic instead. Then I made the mistake of letting someone else hold the hose to fill the 45 gal while I set the table. They got distracted and shot a hole in the sand, filling the tank water with dirt. We caught it pretty quick, but the tank is still murky after 5 days of intense filtering, so we'll change out that water.

I recieved a BEAUTIFUL shipment of plants from Dr. Scroggins and luckily the 10 gal. tank was just fine, so they are all in there recouperating from their trip. But they are so vibrant that people here thought they were artificial!

Plants make all the difference in the aquarium. So glad I went w/ dirt!

 

[MuktiMom]

You were right that quickcrete makes the pfs, but they didn't have the silver here, just an off brand at out Home Depot. If I find any I'll snag a bag. Too late on the red clay, where do I get it for the next tank? Do you think I can sneak some in after the water is in, or does it need to be spread out evenly?

 

[ztigris]

Sounds like you're almost there! The clay you can get at a hobby store. It's just red potters clay. Great source of iron for your heavy feeders. You should be able to add it even now. I'd roll it in balls and poke it down in the substrate with long tweezers.

 

[Rivercats]

I'd roll it in balls and poke it down in the substrate with long tweezers.

This is what I had to do but be careful when adding to the tank if you put too much presssure on the clay balls as I found out they break when your putting them in the substrate quite easily.