Iron Test Kit?
- Thread starter Alshain
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
rich311k
Aquarium Advice Addict
As far as I know there are no reliable hobby grade kits available for iron testing. I dose to .2ppm every other day and watch for signs of deficiencies.
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
Are you saying you added the fe in addition to the CSM+B? If that's the case then yes, it is too much. There is Fe in CSM+B.
No No, just CSM+B and whatever Iron is in Eco-Complete
Doing Tests Now
PH 7.2
KH 10°
Phosphate .5 (A little low)
Nitrate 40ppm
Nitrite .25ppm (They are going down!!! Another day and my cycle will be done)
Ammonia 0ppm (about to go dose some more)
My plants aren't looking so hot either, specifically old leaves on the moneywort and wysteria are getting brownish. I'm going to go add some ammonia and do a CO2 bottle swap to start my staggerd changes. But overall I don't thing I am incredibly defficient on anything, although I may be in excess on iron, that should not cause my plants to die like this, but would cause the algae growth.
Doing Tests Now
PH 7.2
KH 10°
Phosphate .5 (A little low)
Nitrate 40ppm
Nitrite .25ppm (They are going down!!! Another day and my cycle will be done)
Ammonia 0ppm (about to go dose some more)
My plants aren't looking so hot either, specifically old leaves on the moneywort and wysteria are getting brownish. I'm going to go add some ammonia and do a CO2 bottle swap to start my staggerd changes. But overall I don't thing I am incredibly defficient on anything, although I may be in excess on iron, that should not cause my plants to die like this, but would cause the algae growth.
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According to this calculator you're only dosing .063ppm fe if this is for the 55 gallon in your sig. Based on this and your test results I would say that you need to double your trace dosing and up your Phosphate dosing.
Steve Hampton
Aquarium Advice Activist
Fishless cycling with ammonia and live plants is a recipe for algae. Ammonia is the number one cause of algal blooms. Adding more ammonia will only fuel more problems. Fishless cycling is best done prior to adding plants, or following a method called silent cycling where the tank is cycled with fish and no ammonia or nitrite is ever detectable. For now, your best option is to finish your fishless cycle adding only a minimum of ammonia..like a couple drops per 10 gallons and when you're fully cycled, do massive water changes, manual removal of algae, and crank of the CO2. Add only your algae eating crew until you have fully eliminated your algae problem...then add your remaining stock slowly.
Steve Hampton said:
i have been reading more and more about fishless cycling or should i say semifishless cycling with plants lately. the acticles i have been reading all seem to make sence. most say to start the tank up and plant it heavly and let it sit with CO2 and the whole nine going for about 2 weeks and then add a few fish and then a week later add a few more and so on and so forth.
Steve Hampton
Aquarium Advice Activist
There are really several ways to fishless cycle a tank. One of the worst methods is trying to combine adding lots of ammonia and plants...the two are a recipe for major algal problems. I silent cycle CO2 injected tanks with an algae eating crew added immediately. It requires using mainly fast growing stem plants but it completely avoids algae especially if you add mulm from and existing planted tank to your substrate.
Steve Hampton said:
The point of fishless cycling is to be able to add a full load immediately, if I don't do that then the bacteria will starve. I don't see the connection between algae and plants. Algae will grow even if there aren't any plants and ammonia will be in the tank even if you don't fishless cycle. That argument doesn't really hold water.
Alshain said:
The point that Steve Hampton is bringing up, is that a spike of Ammonia combined with lots of light and other nutrients is a recipe for algae, most often Green Water. Without the plants during the fishless cycle you'll still have the Ammonia spike but the lights and other nutrients will be limited since there aren't any plants to worry about, which decreases the risk of an algae outbreak. Yes there will be still be Ammonia present when doing a silent cycle using lots of plants and a small number of fish, but the amount of Ammonia will be extremely small and should be immediately used by the plants preventing the algae outbreak.
Zezmo
Aquarium Advice Addict
By seeding your substrate with mulm, or using dirty filter media. Then starting with a heavy planted tank and a decent fish load. You basicly start the tank with full active colonies of all the bacteria you need, and a "normal" food source for them in the form of fish waste. The "cycle" effect is to establish all required bactia in a healthy colony, thus when you add fish the tank is ready for thier waste.
Silent cycle techniques just get right to the part where the tank is running normally.
Silent cycle techniques just get right to the part where the tank is running normally.
Steve Hampton
Aquarium Advice Activist
Alshain said:
Really? And do you currently have algae...yes you do. Do I have algae when I silent cycle? No, myself and hundreds of other using this method do not.
You don't see a connection between algae and plants? Okay, lets look at this logically. I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, just want to defend the reason behind what I say...I don't make this stuff up, there is science and logic along with testing in gobs of my own planted tanks over a 30+ year period.
Take an empty aquarium. Add substrate and tank decorations fill with water. That's fairly sterile. Add 5ppm of ammonia. You need not have lights on and the tank takes 4-6 weeks to fishless cycle. Good job.
Now change that a bit. Add substrate and tank decorations fill with water. Now add live plants. Even if you dip the plants in bleach some algae spores will survive and be introduced into the aquarium. Now add the 5ppm of ammonia. While plants do use ammonium it is done at very low concentrations...at 5ppm the plants are in a toxic amount of ammonia and the algae spores they carried into the tank will shift into high gear. Water that contains lights needed to keep the plants alive help drive this already bad situation further. By the time the fishless cycled planted tank is cycled it is a frustrating mess of algae issues that makes regaining control tough...not to mention the plants health suffers from being exposed to high levels of ammonia and nitrite.
Ammonia or Ammonium is the leading cause of algae in fish tanks. Be they planted or unplanted, be it free floating algae, attached, or filamentous algae. If I want algae right now in my tanks all I need to do is add some ammonia...I know I've tested this many times. Disturb the substrate too much without doing a water change and you'll cause a temporary ammonia spike...algae soon follows. The point is simple, ammonia feeds algae more than plants. The condition that favors algae over plants is one that is polluted. Check any natural setting...once the water is polluted algae flourishes and plants fail. Fishless cycling is a form of polluting a tank...but if done without plants there isn't a problem because the water cane be filtered and changed prior to adding the plants and without heavy lighting the algae is less likely to become a problem and without introducing algae spores via the plants the odds aren't as great as they would be if plants were introduced. Additionally because plants don't grow in toxic levels of ammonia they begin to leak other nutrients back into the water column futher fueling potential algal issues.
Regarding ammonia in the tank when doing a silent cycle. Again I'll appeal to your logical side. Where does a nitrifying bio-film colonize the most? Answer...where O2 levels are high and food (ammonia and nitrite) are available. Plants themselves carry a nice bio-film of nitrifying bacteria on them. Placing healthy growing plants in you tank adds an element that can easily process the ammonia produced from a few fish...the plants accomplish this both through direct uptake and the bio-films that coat them. Done right, and the is the key. doing it right, a planted tank can be safely cycled without any measurable ammonia or nitrite be detected. Additionally for a silent cycle you must inject CO2 which adds the benefit of the ammonia existing as almost entirely less toxic ammonium due to the pH likely being below neutral.
Again, I fully appreciate fishless cycling and support its use for non-planted tanks. And I fully recommend fishless cycling a low light planted tank...just finish the cycling prior to adding the plants and you will save yourself the algae and eroding plant health issues.
And lastly, about adding the full amount of fish immediately after fishless cycling. I will also have my tank fully cycled if I silent cycle. And additionally...again, I'm all for fishless cycling just not with plants included for all the reasons I've alluded to.
I think this holds water very tightly, but as always its just information that you can decide to accept or reject. Check this against other sources of information and decide for yourself.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
I completely agree with Steve on this one. I have heard the fishless cycle with plants theory and feel it works if monitored VERY closely and knowing exactly what is going on. When I fishless cycle, it is done PITCH BLACK. No tank lights, no indirect or direct sunlight, elevated temperature, high O2 levels, some mulm from an established tank (if possible), and a small amount of fish food (for traces and phosphate that the bacteria will use).
Then I walk away for a week. My first tank cycled in 17 days using this method and poor seed material (some coarse gravel). I instant cycled my second tank with a filter insert from my main tank, no feedings for 2 days, and 1 or 2 plants (java ferns). Again with the lights off.
Then I walk away for a week. My first tank cycled in 17 days using this method and poor seed material (some coarse gravel). I instant cycled my second tank with a filter insert from my main tank, no feedings for 2 days, and 1 or 2 plants (java ferns). Again with the lights off.
mr funktastic
Aquarium Advice Addict
it may have been hijacked but you got your answer to your question aswell as a reccomendation as to fix your dosing and an explanation as to why u are having the problem. these people just answered every question u could have wanted about your tank in its current situation without even asking. seems like a good hijck to me.
Steve Hampton
Aquarium Advice Activist
Alshain said:
You were so intent on dismissing my information you failed to read my recommendation I posted earlier. I love to offer help to people. Included in that help is suggestions on how to do things differently next time...but I always include to best option for the current situation. It is obvious that you dislike my brand of help...I promise in the future to not demonize or respond in any fashion to your posts. Anyway, to finish up I'll refer back to my earlier recommendation:
Steve Hampton said:
You may not like the information or agree with my opinions but they were given on topic and additional information was added free of charge.
Second option is to finish you cycle and add all your fish. IMO this will cause your algae problems to intensify. I base my recommendations on my personal experiences of cycling dozens and dozens of tanks in a variety of ways. I'm not now nor have I ever professed that this is the only alternative, simply what has repeatedly worked for me. What more can you expect when asking a question on an online forum?
mr funktastic
Aquarium Advice Addict
i found a really good article on different types of algeas. u can check it out HERE.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm sorry, I did just come in and not address the OP, just the comments. There are NO current inexpensive reliable iron test kits for us. The best thing you can do is to dose a set level based on lighting conditions for your tank, and do a large PWC at the end of the week to hopefully keep the levels in a good range. I use 0.2ppm iron from CSM+B every other day, and then do a 50% PWC at the end of the week (adding back in 0.2ppm for the 50% that was removed). This way should keep you relatively consistent on dosing, which should then allow you to see possible deficiencies by looking at the plants.
maybe you can find someone that has access to an ICP (inductively coupled plasma) or an AA (Atomic Absorbsion) unit? The ICP unit I use has an LOQ of 5ppb. that should be good enough for what you are looking for. Ask any chemist you know.
