It is not tannins! I don't think.

[piao liang yu]

I have a 60 gallon 48"x13"24" tank. One AC110 and one AC70 with two bubble curtains in the back of the tank. I have one T5HO with one rosette bulb and one white bulb. I have several plants that range from anubias, amazon swords, lots of java moss and some java fern. I dose with seachem flourish comprehensive twice a week and dose with seachem flourish excel daily.

My question is just a few days after I do a 50% pwc (performed weekly) I get what I thought were tannins in the water. My purigen gets dark brown within days. I am starting to wonder if it is organic material causing the problem though. My prefilter sponges on my HOB filters get to where they restrict flow after just a couple of days. I have to turn everything off and clean them thoroughly with a lot of muck and gunk washing out of them. I really could clean them every two days. What is going on there? Why would I have such a problem with gunk like that? The following is my stock.

10 neon tetras
4 otocinclus
3 guppies
3 angelicus botia
3 red wag platies
1 Dwarf Gourami
colony of RCS (plenty of hiding places and moss)

Ammo 0, Nitrate 15, Nitrite 0, PH 7.6

Would a UV sterilizer help with this?

 

[piao liang yu]

The gunk that i wash out of the pre filter sponges is black if that helps anyone. I initially thought the issue was just a problematic tannin issue from my driftwood because that is the color it becomes after a few days. It was after repeatedly washing these pre filter sponges that i realized once i clean most of the gunk out of them the water rinsing in the sink becomes the same color as the "tannin" color i initially suspected. Anybody have any experience with this and if so did you find a remedy?

 

[piao liang yu]

the driftwood came from established tanks from LFS. I have had it for about 10 months now. And it is the prefilter sponges I am talking about. I cover the intakes of my filters with fluval edge prefilter sponges. within two days or so flow is restricted. I have to turn it off and pull those pre-filter sponges off and wash them in fresh water. They are slimy and gunked up. Cannot understand how it gets so messy as I only feed once a day and do 50% weekly pwc's. It is not tannins. Tannins are just a discoloration if I have researched correctly. This stuff is slimy and black, very dirty.

 

[Rivercats]

Honestly my "guess" is your filters are clogging up so quickly as they aren't large enough for the tank. On my 55g tanks I run a Fluval 406 canister and an HOB. I can't speak for anyone else but all my planted tanks dirty filter media is dark in color. I clean my canisters every 3 weeks and am amazed how much dark buildup is in the sponges and polyfill. Only my 55g nano fish tank canister stays relatively clean but the HOB on that tank has a sponge cover which has to be rinsed weekly or it clogs/slows the filter flow. Your tank is obviously producing a lot of organics in the water along with tannins. Purgen in my 220g filter turns dark brown to black in days from organics that aren't toxins. All tanks are different and your plants, stock, feeding habits, and such all contribute to making filter pads, sponges, and polyfill filthy.

Put some water in a white cup and look at it. If it has a tea color then you have tannins. But what your describing with your filters is different from tannins or a combination of tannins and dissolved organics. It just sounds like you need a bigger filter with more media space which canisters provide but it will still get dirty and need cleaning every 3-4 weeks but canisters are much more powerful and you won't be getting constricted flow issues. I also don't suggest using sponge covers over filter intakes unless you have to have them for nano fish, fry, or shrimp.

 

[bshenanagins]

Honestly my "guess" is your filters are clogging up so quickly as they aren't large enough for the tank. On my 55g tanks I run a Fluval 406 canister and an HOB. I can't speak for anyone else but all my planted tanks dirty filter media is dark in color. I clean my canisters every 3 weeks and am amazed how much dark buildup is in the sponges and polyfill. Only my 55g nano fish tank canister stays relatively clean but the HOB on that tank has a sponge cover which has to be rinsed weekly or it clogs/slows the filter flow. Your tank is obviously producing a lot of organics in the water along with tannins. Purgen in my 220g filter turns dark brown to black in days from organics that aren't toxins. All tanks are different and your plants, stock, feeding habits, and such all contribute to making filter pads, sponges, and polyfill filthy.

Put some water in a white cup and look at it. If it has a tea color then you have tannins. But what your describing with your filters is different from tannins or a combination of tannins and dissolved organics. It just sounds like you need a bigger filter with more media space which canisters provide but it will still get dirty and need cleaning every 3-4 weeks but canisters are much more powerful and you won't be getting constricted flow issues. I also don't suggest using sponge covers over filter intakes unless you have to have them for nano fish, fry, or shrimp.

I agree I think your problem is your prefilter is clogging your intakes and your getting tremendously reduced flow rate. Fish won't fit in the AC intakes so no worries here. And I second a canister filter. I feel like HOBs are not useful over 55 gallons unless you have several and you stock lightly. I know I'll get opposition to this but my tank is planted and so is Rivercats and we both use Fluval canisters. I get the gunk as well but my tank is crystal clear.

 

[piao liang yu]

Honestly my "guess" is your filters are clogging up so quickly as they aren't large enough for the tank. On my 55g tanks I run a Fluval 406 canister and an HOB. I can't speak for anyone else but all my planted tanks dirty filter media is dark in color. I clean my canisters every 3 weeks and am amazed how much dark buildup is in the sponges and polyfill. Only my 55g nano fish tank canister stays relatively clean but the HOB on that tank has a sponge cover which has to be rinsed weekly or it clogs/slows the filter flow. Your tank is obviously producing a lot of organics in the water along with tannins. Purgen in my 220g filter turns dark brown to black in days from organics that aren't toxins. All tanks are different and your plants, stock, feeding habits, and such all contribute to making filter pads, sponges, and polyfill filthy.

Put some water in a white cup and look at it. If it has a tea color then you have tannins. But what your describing with your filters is different from tannins or a combination of tannins and dissolved organics. It just sounds like you need a bigger filter with more media space which canisters provide but it will still get dirty and need cleaning every 3-4 weeks but canisters are much more powerful and you won't be getting constricted flow issues. I also don't suggest using sponge covers over filter intakes unless you have to have them for nano fish, fry, or shrimp.

Well I have an AC110 and an AC70 on my 60 gallon. Sure figured I was more than fine with filtration. As for the pre-filter sponges, when I first fired my system up 10 months ago I kept losing shrimp. Then I put in otocinclus and those guys would get sucked up to the intake and would die there. I still have some otocinclus so I have to cover it up. The canister filters also use a similar intake so I would have to cover it with something. Do they not make any prefilter cover for intakes that are less restrictive? Some say they use a AC filter foams cut to fit, but they only come in white or green. That just stands out too much. I prefer black. Anyway, I guess based on what I am hearing is my best option is to get rid of the shrimp and otocinclus?

 

[bshenanagins]

I would suggest wrapping the intake with nylon stocking

 

[piao liang yu]

I would suggest wrapping the intake with nylon stocking

I tried that before I went with these pre-filter sponges I use. It also gets a slime build up and restricts flow even worse. I must have some kind of issue I have yet to diagnose that is causing accelerated gunk/slime build up. I read about it, but the only remedy I could find is a chemical to prevent sludge. I would prefer not to add chemicals. What do you guys think of the sludge reducing checmicals? Also, I found some stainless steel filter intake guards that may work, but not sure if they will fit over my intakes as the biggest one I can find is only 16mm.

 

[Rivercats]

Oto's shouldn't be sucked up any intake. First they would be too large and second if they are being sucked against it and can't move then they are most likely sick and dying. I have 20 something oto's in my 220g tank with 4 Fluval 406 canisters and have never had one get sucked to the intake. I've never had that issue with Oto's in any of my tanks regardless of what filter I'm using.

I do have to cover my Fluval 406 canister intake on my 55g Nano fish tank because some of my nano fish came in about 3/8" long. Some of the Chili Rasbora's were the size of small fry. What I did was take some black plastic Pet Screen used on screen doors and windows and just hand sewed a square that the intake could slide into. Then I rubber banded the top by gathering up the excess and kind of folding it over so the rubber band could hold it in place. The mesh screen is big enough that it doesn't clog or slow the canisters flow but it's small enough that the tiny nano fish can't get through it.

 

[bshenanagins]

Oto's shouldn't be sucked up any intake. First they would be too large and second if they are being sucked against it and can't move then they are most likely sick and dying. I have 20 something oto's in my 220g tank with 4 Fluval 406 canisters and have never had one get sucked to the intake. I've never had that issue with Oto's in any of my tanks regardless of what filter I'm using.

I do have to cover my Fluval 406 canister intake on my 55g Nano fish tank because some of my nano fish came in about 3/8" long. Some of the Chili Rasbora's were the size of small fry. What I did was take some black plastic Pet Screen used on screen doors and windows and just hand sewed a square that the intake could slide into. Then I rubber banded the top by gathering up the excess and kind of folding it over so the rubber band could hold it in place. The mesh screen is big enough that it doesn't clog or slow the canisters flow but it's small enough that the tiny nano fish can't get through it.

I had the same thought about them getting sucked up, most likely sick.

 

[piao liang yu]

I had the same thought about them getting sucked up, most likely sick.

well, I don't mean to doubt that, but this just cannot be the case. I have had them for over nine months, but after I first got them. initially got seven, and before i got pre-filter sponges i came home and they were all sucked up in the holes of the intakes. all of them. i immediately turned off the power. They were still stuck, i had to disconnect the intake and slosh it around to free them. Three were already dead, the other four lived and I still have them going strong. So the sick theory on the oto's is incorrect.

 

[bshenanagins]

Unless they are Juvies, or your intake is open fairly wide (what kind of filter?) I can't see an heathy dis except nanos as Rivercats mentioned getting sucked in. I've had neons get sucked up in my aqueon but that's because I broke the intake slits for my turtle a long time ago so it wouldn't get clogged with turtle crap. Filter intakes are strong enough to suck up free floating debris but not a healthy fish. Idk I can't agree

 

[piao liang yu]

Unless they are Juvies, or your intake is open fairly wide (what kind of filter?) I can't see an heathy dis except nanos as Rivercats mentioned getting sucked in. I've had neons get sucked up in my aqueon but that's because I broke the intake slits for my turtle a long time ago so it wouldn't get clogged with turtle crap. Filter intakes are strong enough to suck up free floating debris but not a healthy fish. Idk I can't agree

Just telling you the facts. They were lodged in the intake openings. My filters are AC110 and AC70. They probably went to feed on it and got sucked against it lodging them in the openings. Not sure what you mean by you cannot agree. It is not a gray area issue. What I explained actually happened. Thanks for your input though.

 

[Rivercats]

Here's a little Oto info you may or may not know. Oto's have spines and if they get stuck in something I've found the Oto usually dies. Your not suppose to use nets on them due to their spines. I have an Oto get stuck on a nylon bag that contained true bog peat. He was stuck and after I finally was able to unstick him it died within 12 hours. This isn't uncommon.

Also most all oto's in the trade are wild caught and many of them are caught using cyanide. The cyanide stuns them which makes capture easy. Many die within days but many live for awhile until the residual effects of the cyanide catch up to them. It really isn't uncommon for Oto's to die for no reason even after 9 months.

Not saying yours did but these are possible reasons. Try the pet screen as it really works well. I've had very good results with it and nothing, including my oto's have gotten caught on it.