Java Fern brown holes everywhere

[fish_4_all]

10 gallon 40 watts no
NO3 - 10-20ppm I tested after dosing, dumb me, will test in the morning
PO4 - 2 again after dosing
KH 10, GH 8, pH 6.6
Anchored to an unfinished piece of ceramic bisque
Dose .2ppm iron from CSM+B and alternate 10ppm NO3 and 1ppm PO4 with 20ppm K2SO4
Leaves, old and new have holes through them that look like something ate a hole in them. I do have pond snails but I have never seen them eating it. The holes are very brown and so numerous it looks every spore that might have been on the bottom is now a hole. No other plant is showing signs of any problems, elodea growing like the weed it is. Wisteria growing extremely well. Water sprite grow better floating but is growing both floating and planted. Anubias barteri nana is putting out a ton of roots and is growing a dozen new leaves. Crypt Red Wendtii is bigger than I have ever seen it and is not showing any signs of any problems. Cork Screw vals are only 8 inches tall but very healthy and sending out numerous runners.

Could my NO3 be bottoming out and be used up before the fern can get some? Is the fern not that hardy when grown in with other fast growing plants? It was growing just fine before putting it on the ceramic, could it be that the unfinished piece is somehow burning the leaves?

I do plan to give it away but I want it to be healthy and I don't want this to be a precursor to my other plants going south too.

 

[malkore]

so you dose no traces except iron?

then i suspect a trace nutrient deficiency. andy why dose iron to 2ppm? iron doesn't need to exceed something like 0.03ppm.

 

[travis simonson]

Congrats man, Java fern is usually bulletproof I'm not sure what you've managed to do but it looks almost like it isn't getting any light. If you'd said that your other plants were also dying I wouldn't have been surprised, but since they're thriving I am at a loss. You didn't happen to bury the rhizome of the fern in the substrate did you?

 

[fish_4_all]

Sorry, I dose CSM+B at .2ppm iron. Rhizome is on a ceramic piece well above the substrate. It just took off for about 2 months and now in the past 4 days it is looking destroyed.

 

[Jchillin]

I agree, I kept my "mother" fern in almost no light and absolutely no ferts for several months. How does the rhizome and roots look? Are they unobstructed and loosely tied?

 

[fish_4_all]

Lots of roots and even lots more plantlets. I removed a dozen of them yesterday and the deadest leaves. There are a few leaves that look alright but most are full of those holes. It has one small rubberband around the middle of the plant and is very loose. It even gets a descent amount of light if not full light most of the time, always has. I can grow the harder plants but when it comes to the easiest, I have no clue. I can't grow java moss! Maybe I need to stay away from anything that says "java".

Part of the rhizome does not look all that good but the other parts of it are putting out new fronds, I counted 16 new starts. Maybe it is just going through a transition of new growth. It never did die off from the emersed growth. I think I am going to cut all the leaves off that even have any damage and let it come back fresh and new. As well as most of the roots so they can do the same. Trimming the roots seemed to work the last time so maybe it will work again.

Newest Numbers:
KH - 7
NO3 - 10ppm
PO4 - 3-4ppm
pH - 6.8
GH 8
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
CO2 calculated at 33pm

This means NO3 is starting to bottom out and PO4 is not being used much at all. KH is continually dropping 1 ppm per week, down from 10dKH 3 weeks ago. GH is now lower as less MgSO4 is being dosed, was kept at 10-12. Crypt Red Wendtii is now showing signs of the deficiancy. 3 leaves have the same tell tale brown spots on them. Could it be nothing more than the CO2 levels dropping from the lower KH? Could it be from the high levels of PO4. I only have spot algae in the tank. Could it be the pond snails although I don't think so as the one I got them from has never had them eat plants. The MTS also hide continually and I only see the largest ones twice a week.

 

[7Enigma]

Well I'm having a similar situation to you, though my algae issues have now caused me to consider that as well. About 3-4 weeks ago I started to see the tips and right down the main vein of each leaf turning brown/black. My other plants (stargrass, anubias, and some unknowns) seem to be fine other than the algae. Now they are covered in algae (separate issues due to fish death when on vacation) and I'm wondering if I should see if they will come back on their own, do a bleach dip to get the algae off, or cut off all the affected leaves???

I thought for the longest time that it was a potassium issue (brown holes in leaves are a sure sign), but I dose well over the normal amount to make sure it never is a factor.

Before getting all the other plants and higher light these guys were growing so fast it was great (started with 2 golfball size plants and have split them to many different plants some quite large), now I can't figure out what is the problem. Especially since the other plants seem to be fine.

No recent additions except for some MTS from 2 months or so ago...

Hope your problem gets solved. I still wish I could figure out though what was the major component of my GH, either Mg or Ca. I dose CSM+B which has Mg in it, but wouldn't expect to have problems since my GH is around 9 and I do 25-50% PWC each week....

 

[malkore]

I have had a java fern 'go nuts' and produce an extremely large number of plantlets, and then die off completely.

many say that plants do have a lifespan, so perhaps this is all you're seeing...a final attempt to reproduce before death.

 

[fish_4_all]

Now that makes total sense! I just helped it along them by trimming the whole plant and letting it start over. Would also explain why there are 7 rhizome, maybe an attempt to spread out when starting new. Very useful information.

 

[7Enigma]

http://www.algone.com/plant_health.htm

I'm starting to think its a trace deficiency since the only nutrient deficiency that matches my java ferns problems are a K deficiency (which makes no sense since I dose pretty heavily and my stargrass which grows much faster has no problems I can see), too much phosphate (my AP liquid kit says I have less than 2ppm), or traces....

This is getting frustrating, but I just got some Excel and will see if it will help with the algae problems from the recent vacation and fish death.

 

[fish_4_all]

I cut mine down to nothing. Is slowly starting to put out some new leaves. My phosphates are always 3-4ppm. Don't know why except tap has .5-1ppm in it. Iron isn't likely and K is does possibly too high. I wonder if this is one plant that you can stunt with excess K?

Who knows, too easy to grow to worry about but when it goes south, it really does it right!

 

[7Enigma]

I'm wondering if your on to something with the excess K causing problems specifically with java fern. I'll have to see if I can find something on the net that would support this...

 

[fish_4_all]

I can't find anything about K and java fern. Just that they don't like low iron levels.

 

[7Enigma]

I can't find anything about K and java fern. Just that they don't like low iron levels.

Definately seems like it was a trace deficiency in my case. I have since dosed some CSM+B straight from the powder to the tank for the last 3 days (small amounts) and some of the black tips of the leaves have started to turn back green. Pretty incredible as I had thought they were dead and would need to be cut off or risk losing the whole leaf.