liquid ferts?

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I actually asked just about that same question. The answer I got seemed reasonable and followed along with most I was able to read on the topic as well as what I've seen in my own tanks

First is that algae doesn't start photosynthesis as quickly as plants do. It takes them longer to start the process and this is the primary reason why longer lighting times cause algae growth

Next is the growth of algae on plants. Most plants emit a mild algaecide. When the plants are healthy they prevent the algae growth on them, however when they aren't growing they aren't warding off the algae growth. This necessitates proper CO2 and Light.

There's more to it I'm sure, but that would have to be a question posed to Tom Barr for a proper answer.

Here, starting at post #14, Tom Barr actually debunks the idea of allelopathic chemicals having any significant algae-suppressing effect. How do plants suppress algae growth

It's a rather interesting discussion.
 
To attempt to answer your first question, the idea is to create an environment in which algae cannot compete with the plants. While we know that excess nutrients are not the cause of algae, no one really knows exactly why, so you're not alone. All we know is that plenty of healthy, growing plants that are not limited by nutrients or CO2 = very minimal algae. One way of looking at it is that as long as the plants are using the available energy (light) to the fullest extent possible, it makes it difficult for algae to take hold, so the best practice is to make sure that light is the limiting factor instead of CO2 and/or nutrient levels. Algae is opportunistic, and will survive by scavenging the tiniest amount of nutrients, but if there isn't much excess light available (and CO2 and nutrients are both abundant and stable), for some reason algae seems to sit back and let the plants do their thing, waiting for the opportunity of conditions that are better suited to its propagation. If this was not true, aquatic plants would not even survive in nature since they would always just be overtaken by algae.

Yeah, the "balance" idea threw me off in the beginning. It's not like there is some critical balancing point where everything has to be exactly right. I think some people get the wrong impression of what "balance" means in regard to planted tanks. Really, the only reason we need to limit CO2 and/or nutrient levels is for the sake of our fish.

Basically, CO2 and light level go hand in hand, and will compensate for each other to an extent because of the ability of plants to adapt (I'll spare the details.) If you have plenty of light, but not quite enough CO2, the plants might still be able to make full use of the available light, but this is not the "safe side", thus there's a greater risk of algae explosion. The "safe side" is to make sure there is plenty of CO2 (and nutrients of course), but not quite enough light, that way you ensure that light will be the limiting factor.


Thanks. Some more elements in this post make it a little easier to understand. I feel that sometimes in this hobby we take things for granted because we know they work. It's the how and why that really gets me ticking but please, never spare any details. My plants have recently fought off the algae that was growing on them so that was reassuring to know that they are getting healthier although it is common sense even to a novice in the plant area.




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I actually asked just about that same question. The answer I got seemed reasonable and followed along with most I was able to read on the topic as well as what I've seen in my own tanks



First is that algae doesn't start photosynthesis as quickly as plants do. It takes them longer to start the process and this is the primary reason why longer lighting times cause algae growth



Next is the growth of algae on plants. Most plants emit a mild algaecide. When the plants are healthy they prevent the algae growth on them, however when they aren't growing they aren't warding off the algae growth. This necessitates proper CO2 and Light.



There's more to it I'm sure, but that would have to be a question posed to Tom Barr for a proper answer.


Ok thanks mebbid. I felt I was missing something. The growth rate of algae compared to plants also makes a lot of sense. You see to me, the logic of plants vs algae at taking in light/nutrients etc is that the surface are of leaves and roots is far greater than any algae I have seen in my tanks. For that reason it makes more sense to me that, flooding the system with nutrients allows the plants to photosynthesise at it's peak photosynthetic efficiency thus limiting the available of such nutrients for the algae (the plants take in the nutrients as fast as that are made available)

When one such ingredient is lacking the plant cannot reach it's peak and the uptake reduces presenting an opportunity for they algae to 'scavenge'

This to me makes sense but I have no data to back this up. It's just my thoughts.


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, flooding the system with nutrients allows the plants to photosynthesise at it's peak photosynthetic efficiency thus limiting the available of such nutrients for the algae (the plants take in the nutrients as fast as that are made available)

So it would seem, but as mentioned by Mebbid in regards to EI dosing, the fact remains that tanks that are dosed with more nutrients than the plants could ever possibly use will not necessarily have algae. It could be simply an evolutionary mechanism that algae just gives up in the presence of plants that are thriving.. which makes sense because any algae that would attempt it would naturally die off due to being overtaken and shaded by fast plant growth.
 
So it would seem, but as mentioned by Mebbid in regards to EI dosing, the fact remains that tanks that are dosed with more nutrients than the plants could ever possibly use will not necessarily have algae. It could be simply an evolutionary mechanism that algae just gives up in the presence of plants that are thriving.. which makes sense because any algae that would attempt it would naturally die off due to being overtaken and shaded by fast plant growth.


Another logical thought. I'll have to read that post someone left a little earlier. Interesting topic indeed.


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So it would seem, but as mentioned by Mebbid in regards to EI dosing, the fact remains that tanks that are dosed with more nutrients than the plants could ever possibly use will not necessarily have algae. It could be simply an evolutionary mechanism that algae just gives up in the presence of plants that are thriving.. which makes sense because any algae that would attempt it would naturally die off due to being overtaken and shaded by fast plant growth.
Theres some inhibiting factor at play in keeping the algae at bay. Understanding what that is, is beyond me at the moment. I have neither the education to figure it out or the equipment to test :)

The neat thing is I get to see algae control from two different angles. In my fresh water tank it's all about keeping nutrients available and limiting light. In my salt water tank it's all about limiting nutrients. My reef has a consistent 0.0ppm of both phosphate and nitrate. This is because my macro algae grows and absorbs it all, but I believe it also goes hand in hand with my use of tap water vs ro/di. I have more potassium and micro nutrients than other people have in their tanks allowing my macro algae to consume all the nitrate and phosphate. This starves the algae of nutrients. In fact, in order to keep my tank healthy I have to dose potassium nitrate daily which is the exact opposite of what everyone else does.
 
Theres some inhibiting factor at play in keeping the algae at bay. Understanding what that is, is beyond me at the moment. I have neither the education to figure it out or the equipment to test :)

The neat thing is I get to see algae control from two different angles. In my fresh water tank it's all about keeping nutrients available and limiting light. In my salt water tank it's all about limiting nutrients. My reef has a consistent 0.0ppm of both phosphate and nitrate. This is because my macro algae grows and absorbs it all, but I believe it also goes hand in hand with my use of tap water vs ro/di. I have more potassium and micro nutrients than other people have in their tanks allowing my macro algae to consume all the nitrate and phosphate. This starves the algae of nutrients. In fact, in order to keep my tank healthy I have to dose potassium nitrate daily which is the exact opposite of what everyone else does.


Good point. My question would be do corals and such require the same nutrients as plants? How do you control their needs without provoking algae?


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Good point. My question would be do corals and such require the same nutrients as plants? How do you control their needs without provoking algae?


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They need primarily calcium and alkalinity to grow and a huge host of micro nurrients. Other than that, the nitrate keeps them from turning brown.

While macro nutrients for plants is npk, these are more of an afterthought for corals.
 
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