My 40b mess

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Reygan2

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Jul 8, 2011
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Hi all, I replaced my 29g with a 40b, and decided to go with Miracle Grow Organic potting mix with an eco complete cap. I didn't realize the magnitude of the mess I'd be dealing with. It's been 3 days and although the water has cleared some, it's still really cloudy. My main concern now is the immediate effect that the decomposing organic materials will have on my water parameters. I'm running 2 AC 70's until I can get a good canister, and I'm cleaning the pads several times a day. I did a 30% pwc yesterday, and it still didn't help much. Here's a pic. No aquascaping done yet, I just basically threw the stem plants in. My Finnex FugeRay fixture hasn't arrived yet. I plan to have a low tech setup for now, but I will have pressurized CO2 at some point. Anyone with advice or words of encouragement would be appreciated, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed atm.
 

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The way I avoided the tannin and cloudy problem was to do 7 days of complete (well as low as I could go) WC's and ran a good amount of Purgen in my canister. I planted on day 8 and then went to weekly WC's. The plants sucks those excess nutrients right up and if you can add water sprite it will really aid in the process. I tested my water on day 10 and the tank was completely cycled. Could have been cycled earlier but didn't test so don't know.

I'm not sure how you could have so much stuff in your water that your filter pads are clogging so quickly. I used 1-1/2 inches of organic potting soil with 1-1/2 inches of Eco-complete as a cap. When planting except for the two large swords I put in I plant in the Eco and let the roots go down to the soil so there is less mess. Mine tank is a 220g. The one thing I will tell you is that you need to get something like a BBQ fork that has long thin prongs so you can poke around your soil a few times a day to release any gas buildup caused by the breakdown of the organics in the soil. This usually needs to be done the first 4ish weeks. My plants grow like crazy, I dose dry ferts PPS-Pro daily, and use liquid carbon and no CO2. Once you get the feel of things you'll be fine.
 
The way I avoided the tannin and cloudy problem was to do 7 days of complete (well as low as I could go) WC's and ran a good amount of Purgen in my canister. I planted on day 8 and then went to weekly WC's. The plants sucks those excess nutrients right up and if you can add water sprite it will really aid in the process. I tested my water on day 10 and the tank was completely cycled. Could have been cycled earlier but didn't test so don't know.

I'm not sure how you could have so much stuff in your water that your filter pads are clogging so quickly. I used 1-1/2 inches of organic potting soil with 1-1/2 inches of Eco-complete as a cap. When planting except for the two large swords I put in I plant in the Eco and let the roots go down to the soil so there is less mess. Mine tank is a 220g. The one thing I will tell you is that you need to get something like a BBQ fork that has long thin prongs so you can poke around your soil a few times a day to release any gas buildup caused by the breakdown of the organics in the soil. This usually needs to be done the first 4ish weeks. My plants grow like crazy, I dose dry ferts PPS-Pro daily, and use liquid carbon and no CO2. Once you get the feel of things you'll be fine.

The filters aren't clogging, I'm just keeping them rinsed out so they won't. I have noticed the air bubbles and it has concerned me. Did you have fish in when you did yours? I do, and I had an ammonia reading today, which is also really concerning me. I've done some water changing everyday, but only 30%. I planted heavily from the start, and I am dosing excel, but I haven't dosed dry ferts since the change. Should I be doing my regular dosing schedule?
 
I added my first fish on day 8 and put my adult angels in around day 14. The only reason they weren't in earlier was I knew I needed to do the big WC's for a few days. But once I planted and tested I knew the tank had cycled and I could start adding fish. I didn't dose ferts for the first 4-6 weeks because I knew the organic soil would leech a ton of nutrients but I did use glutaraldehyde which is the equivalant of Excel but cheaper. Two things that I think really helped mop up the nutrients and ammonia was I used water sprite and got some small water hycanths for surface floaters. I also took a bunch of clipping off my potho's house plant, loosely tied them together, removed the leaves that would be in the water so the stems would root. This supposedly also removes nutrients and I ended up liking how it looked as it filled in and grew I left them there. When the roots get too long I just snip them shorter and they just keep on growing. Plus the tetras love hanging around the roots. If you have a high ammonia reading I seriously would do at least a 50% WC daily for a few days and try adding some really fast growing plants or water sprite and some floaters. Many use duckweed but it is messy. As for the gas just keep poking the soil and most will be done in the first weeks. Off and on you will see a few bubbles rise from the substrate as time goes on but this is normal. Another thing, make sure when you aquascape if you use any swords or crypts you put them where you want them. If you try to move them in a dirt tank you will get a mess.
 
I can't remember how long it was for, but I remember ammonia for at least a couple weeks when I used miracle gro. I don't recommend using it any longer, because of the extreme algae blooms that come along with it for the first 6 months or so, until the soil becomes mineralized (unless it's mineralized prior to adding to the tank). Just keep on top of water changes. FWIW, I had mine for about 8 months or so, and it leached tannins the whole time.

Also, agreed on the big root plants. I pulled a few swords and crypts from one of mine and had an instantly brown tank.
 
I didn't use miracle grow, I used a brand from Lowes called Simply Natural. I had used it for years in potted plants in my ponds. I had major leeching for the first 7 days which is why I did 100% WC's changes, then on day 8 I took 50% of the water out and heavily planted. Most of the tannins had leeched out but I did run Purgen in the canister for at least a couple months. I honestly couldn't tell if there were any tannins in the water after planting. If I had any ammonia it was totally gone 2 days after I planted. In fact I had 0 readings for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. I had algae for about the first 3-4 weeks but I also had so much plant growth things just seemed to settle down and balance out. I honestly don't know if the organic potting soil I used made a difference or not as I have only used it in tanks and never tried Miracle grow. The only thing I would do different had I know was I would have kept the soil a couple inches back from the tank front and sides and filled those areas in with the Eco. It would have such a nicer look if I had done it that way instead of just putting down the soil and then the Eco so when you look at the tank from the front you see the layering.
 
Ahh, I have mixed feelings with soil, it can be such a pain. With my soil tanks I always put a border of the cap around the edges first so there's no layer lines visible. But still, hated myself any time I had to pull a big plant out.
 
Yeah, I really wish I'd went the mineralized route, or at least used a screen to remove the pieces of wood and other junk. I also wish I'd put ec around the front and sides. I've been netting out all of the floating wood chips and other debree as often as possible. I'm thinking I might add some sort of start up like Colony or Safe Start just to boost my BB, not sure if it will help quickly enough though. I have lots of stem plants and other types floating around, so they should use up ammonia, and Prime also helps. It was at 1.0 when I tested before the pwc yesterday. I'll change more today after work. I didn't think I needed to dose NPK or micros for a little while, but I'm continuing to dose excel. I am ordering 2 Eheim 2215's to run on this tank, and I'll add Purigen. Hopefully things will start to balance out and clear up.

Thanks a bunch for the input!
 
Yeah, I really wish I'd went the mineralized route, or at least used a screen to remove the pieces of wood and other junk. I also wish I'd put ec around the front and sides. I've been netting out all of the floating wood chips and other debree as often as possible. I'm thinking I might add some sort of start up like Colony or Safe Start just to boost my BB, not sure if it will help quickly enough though. I have lots of stem plants and other types floating around, so they should use up ammonia, and Prime also helps. It was at 1.0 when I tested before the pwc yesterday. I'll change more today after work. I didn't think I needed to dose NPK or micros for a little while, but I'm continuing to dose excel. I am ordering 2 Eheim 2215's to run on this tank, and I'll add Purigen. Hopefully things will start to balance out and clear up.

Thanks a bunch for the input!
Instead of using a bacteria booster, I suggest just getting more plants. Plant the tank densely, put a decent light on it (not sure what you are using now), and it will eat through the ammonia on it's own once everything gets settled in. It sounds like you are already doing that with the floating stems, I'd just add even more.

I still dose my mineralized soil tanks periodically because I've got a lot of plants that aren't very heavy root feeders. I basically treat the soil like a giant root tab so I still like to dose the column for good measure, plus I often use a cap of a high cec substrate material that eventually soaks up all the nutrients. (ecocomplete does this also)

I would avoid dosing npk/micros in your current situation since algae blooms/spikes are common because of the nutrient overload as the soil is in the process of mineralizing in-tank. So I think you are on the right track in that regard.
 
Instead of using a bacteria booster, I suggest just getting more plants. Plant the tank densely, put a decent light on it (not sure what you are using now), and it will eat through the ammonia on it's own once everything gets settled in. It sounds like you are already doing that with the floating stems, I'd just add even more.

I still dose my mineralized soil tanks periodically because I've got a lot of plants that aren't very heavy root feeders. I basically treat the soil like a giant root tab so I still like to dose the column for good measure, plus I often use a cap of a high cec substrate material that eventually soaks up all the nutrients. (ecocomplete does this also)

I would avoid dosing npk/micros in your current situation since algae blooms/spikes are common because of the nutrient overload as the soil is in the process of mineralizing in-tank. So I think you are on the right track in that regard.

I spoke with a fs owner today and he offered to give me some seeded media from one of his tanks to help boost my existing BB. It couldn't hurt. He didn't recommend using the bacteria booster either. I can certainly pick up more plants also. I ordered the Finnex FugeRay 36" LED fixture and it's arriving today, along with 2 Hydor Koralia circ pumps. I think I'll eventually be fine, I just don't want to lose my fish during the process.
 
Just realized I'm in a full blown mini cycle. Ammonia at .50ppm, nitrite at .50. I am getting a nice nitrate reading, so I'm hoping things balance out soon. I could only find some rotala on such short notice (I'm not close to a lfs), so I bought an enormous bunch of it, plus the fs owner threw in a large bag full of junk from one of his filters. I dumped it all in. Now I wait. Rather than order 2 Eheim 2215's I've decided to use 1 2217, should be sufficient. The Finnex FugeRay arrived and is as fabulous as I thought it would be. The tank is looking much clearer, but I'm noticing tannins from the wood chips leaching.
Just thought I'd update.
 
I did a 60% pwc several days ago, and since then my parameters have been perfect. The tank is clearing, although I do still have tannins leaching from the wood chips. I really don't mind the look though. My plants are looking good, and I didn't lose a fish, so I'm calling this a success. Glad I made the change to dirt. So far no algae issues, but it is a little soon to tell. I was in Charlotte NC this weekend and found some sweet dw at Fintastics. Also picked up a couple of angels.
So far so good. Still loving the Finnex fixture too.
Pics as soon as I get some scaping done:).
 
Thanks for the update and glad to hear that things are going well. Sounds like you love your fish and are prepared to do whatever it takes to give them a happy and healthy environment! If I was a fish I would definitely want to be kept in your tank! :) I had a very good friend of mine tell me about Fintastics and how good it was. Wish I could check it out for myself but unfortunately I live too far away :( She told me that upstairs they have these display tanks amongst lounge chairs and bars and other comfy pieces of furniture, is that true?? Sounds like a dream LFS to have, and my girlfriend who is also into fish would have absolutely loved for me to take her there. Oh well, one can only dream ;)
 
Update:
The Eheim 2217 is installed and running, my first canister and I LOVE it!! The Eco complete cap is working well. My crypts are going through an adjustment period, but I've not had much die off from all of the other plants I added on the start up. I wish I had boiled the dw from Fintastics, as it's really leaching tannins along with wood chips in the soil. I'm really not liking the brown water, so I still might take it out and see what I can do to get rid of as much as I can. I'm still searching for something to plant in the front. I planted a small bunch of ms and dhg to see if it would do, and so far it's looking like it will make it. The Finnex LED fixture seems sufficient, and I have had no trace of algae. I'm not dosing dry ferts yet, just excel. My parameters are stable. All of my original fish are fine and made the transition well. I did lose a couple of the new angels from Fintastics, but that seems to be my luck. I'm thinking weak stock (from what I've read) combined with stress and only God knows what else, but I have a hard time finding and keeping my favorite species alive. That's another thread though. Still a work in progress. I'm terrible at aquascaping, but here's what I have so far. I think I need to trim the middle plants to start with. Any input would be appreciated:).
 

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To get rid of the tannins do more WC's and put Purgen in your canister. Use more than directed (it is safe so don't worry) as you want alot to really suck the tannins out. It works. That is what I used when I dirted my 220g. Once I added it you could hardly tell there was tannins in the water. Carbon also works but you'll have to change it pretty often.
 
To get rid of the tannins do more WC's and put Purgen in your canister. Use more than directed (it is safe so don't worry) as you want alot to really suck the tannins out. It works. That is what I used when I dirted my 220g. Once I added it you could hardly tell there was tannins in the water. Carbon also works but you'll have to change it pretty often.

I think I definitely need to take your advice on the Purigen. I'm ordering it today and I'm not sure how much I need. Also, do I simply place it on the top of the filter media in my canister? Any tips would be appreciated:).
BTW, your angels are gorgeous!!
 
I think I definitely need to take your advice on the Purigen. I'm ordering it today and I'm not sure how much I need. Also, do I simply place it on the top of the filter media in my canister? Any tips would be appreciated:).
BTW, your angels are gorgeous!!

I know it comes in little packages or a 1L bottle. I don't know the dosage off the top of my head but I do know I get the large bottle (due to my tank size) and use 2x the amount it says, but I also put it in a knee high pantyhose, tie it off, and cut off the excess so I can flatten it out in the canister basket. The best way is to put it where the water flows through it last, so you get the cleanest water passing through it so it works best. Don't know how your cansiter stacks but I put mine last on top of floss in the last basket.
 
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