Need Advice- Importance of a pH controller in a planted tank w/ C02? Best brands, etc

[DanTheGuppyMan]

Hello Aquarium Advice,

I have recently started my newly redone 60 gallon planted aquarium, full of plants now. I have been pondering whether I should invest in a C02 system while I was watching my tank grow and establish, I decided it would be good to try it out. I purchased a nice 5 lb. tank, Aquatek regulator, GLA atomic diffuser, bubble counter, etc, etc. Everything comes in next week, and now I hear that lots of people that use C02 in their tanks also use a pH controller. I tried to research more about them but I could not find good info, so here I am asking you all. So what is the importance of a pH controller in a freshwater planted tank like mine? I have actually established a stable pH of 6.8-7.2 since I will stock it with angelfish, and I put some peat granular in my extra tank and after a while I took out that water and put it into my main tank (of course I used cycled water and dechlorinated) so I wouldn't have to put the peat in my main filter system and have my water turn yellow as in my other tank, and by pouring in the water from that tank to this one in little amounts I see no color change, but my pH went from a 7.8-8.2 to a 6.8! It has been stable for a while now, and I think I may need a pH controller, but how important is it, how do you use it, what brand should I get, blah blah blah. Thanks for any help you can provide and God bless!

DanTheGuppyMan

 

[nereksnad]

greetings.

a PH controller in a co2 setup is used to automatically regulate how much co2 is in the tank. when you start adding co2 the PH in the tank gets lower, the controller measures this and adjusts the flow of co2 accoringly (i assume)

 

[DanTheGuppyMan]

Ah, I see...so if you add something to the tank that raises the pH, it would switch on the C02 until it gets to your preset level? So it doesn't keep the C02 running? Only when it needs to regulate the pH?

 

[Dreadz]

Ah, I see...so if you add something to the tank that raises the pH, it would switch on the C02 until it gets to your preset level? So it doesn't keep the C02 running? Only when it needs to regulate the pH?

You set ph limits on the control unit (lower and upper) and the unit then switches on or off the flow of co2 accordingly, keeping your ph within the range you have set.

 

[ejaramillo01]

I bough mine from Amazon. It is a Milwaukee (Brand name) pH controller, works really good, easy to calibrate and more easy to operate.
Never have a problem with it.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

I love my Milwaukee controller. It's more valuable in tanks where co2 levels are kept high. It keeps it at any level you want it but never let's the co2 go beyond the point the controller is set to. It also makes end of tank dumps impossible. If co2 ever comes out of the tank to fast it still can't hurt the system because it shuts the solenoid down. In small tanks where the aquarist wants high co2 it shines best. Bigger tanks are more forgiving about faster bubble rates making controllers less important.

It's also useful if you want to bring the co2 level up quickly before the lights come on. You can set the bubble counter higher than normal and just let the controller turn the system on and off throughout the day. That method works much better with inline co2 reactors because they hold a small reserve of co2 that gets released slowly even after the co2 is off which makes things consistent.

 

[aqua_chem]

Ah, I see...so if you add something to the tank that raises the pH, it would switch on the C02 until it gets to your preset level? So it doesn't keep the C02 running? Only when it needs to regulate the pH?

What you describe is actually a really dangerous situation, and potentially one of the great downfalls of pH controllers.

It might seem obvious, but pH controllers measure pH, not CO2.

If for some reason your pH would normally not be stable for whatever reason (substrate effects, low natural buffer, new DW, etc), then your CO2 will NOT be consistent. Lets say your pH is normally 7.4, a reasonable level for many tanks. At ~30 ppm of CO2, your pH will be around 6.4-ish. If you add something into your tank by whatever mechanism that raises the natural pH to, say, 8, then your pH at 30 ppm would probably be closer to 7.2-ish. But instead you pH probe overcorrects it to 6.4, giving you a much larger CO2 level than intended. The opposite problem occurs in the more likely case that the natural pH drops. Thanks to your driftwood or aquasoil or what-have-you, your pH drops by the end of the week to 6.8, and your probe drops it further to 6.4, but your CO2 levels are much lower than needed.

Long story short, pH is a proxy measurement for CO2.

I don't mean to say that using a pH probe necessarily equates to inconsistency, but just its another thing that you are forfeiting control over. It probably works great in most tanks, without a doubt. But in the end, it's a $100 piece of equipment that can be replaced with a little knowledge of tank dynamics.

If you're really concerned about stable pH and plant-related efficacy, get some Aquasoil and call it good. It's a much, much better use of your money than a pH probe.


Also, the freaking clicking all day from the solenoid going on and off would probably drive me insane. I don't know about you guys, but my Milwaukee solenoid (albeit a cheaper model) was really loud.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

Yes but that comes down to user error. The problem there is in using pH altering products, not the controller. If someone is using anything to alter their pH the first thing they keep an eye on is the pH controller to see what the effect of their additions are doing, in real time. The controller is a help in that instance. Besides, a simple drop checker should always be used in any instance. Having or not having a pH controller isn't going to solve user error. It will help keep a precise co2 and pH level for anyone who learns how to use them. If the pH is raised by buffers all anyone needs to do is adjust the setting on the controller.

I'd be interested in hearing complaints about solenoid noise from someone who uses a controller. Everybody who uses one seems to love theirs. I've never even noticed it on my system. My inline Hydor makes more noise switching on and off. Besides, the complaint there is from the cheap solenoid, not the controller. If the needle valve is set at a close rate to maintain the desired co2 levels the solenoid won't go on and off often at all. You can control on/off cycles with the needle valve.

 

[aqua_chem]

My solenoid makes a god awful racket. I'm not sure if something's loose or what but it sounds like something important is breaking every time. If you're going to be adjusting your needle valve to maintain a desired CO2 level without the solenoid going on and off, which is what I recommend, then it also ultimately defeats the purpose of the pH probe as well, which is my point.

I guess I can sum up my position thusly: If money matters and you have something else to spend the $100 on, buy that, including better substrate, dry ferts, and anything else that people would otherwise dismiss as unnecessary or expensive, and get the probe last. If I found myself in a position to pick one up for super cheap, I would probably get it.

 

[ejaramillo01]

IME, my solenoid is controlled by a Milwaukee pH meter/controller. No noise at all, of course if you pay attention, you hear a soft "click" when switch on or off.
I also have a drop checker to be sure that the CO2 levels are in the proper level, of course it is impossible to be watching the color in the drop checker all the time, but I agree with Aquachem, depending on the budget and the priorities that you decide to have for your tank.

 

[aqua_chem]

Mine sounds like a mousetrap going off.

 

[CorallineAlgae]

IME, my solenoid is controlled by a Milwaukee pH meter/controller. No noise at all, of course if you pay attention, you hear a soft "click" when switch on or off.
I also have a drop checker to be sure that the CO2 levels are in the proper level, of course it is impossible to be watching the color in the drop checker all the time, but I agree with Aquachem, depending on the budget and the priorities that you decide to have for your tank.

Same with mine. My Hydor inline heater makes a louder click than my solenoid and it's 5 years old. Definitely right about spending priorities. A pH controller won't make plants grow any better, but it does make fine tuning even a cheap co2 system with a lousy needle valve far easier and it stops end of tank dumps in their tracks. The same money could be spent on a better regulator setup to begin with.

I just think of it like having anti-lock breaks on a car. Most people won't need them but one tank crash later and they wouldn't seem unreasonable to buy. I bet if they were $20 everybody would consider them a no brainer. I doubt they even cost $10 to make.