Newbie seeks general advice and suggestions

[LondonGman]

Hi all,
This is my first post here. This site has been in my favourites bookmarks ever since I found it 3 months ago when I got my first fish tank. With the books I have, this site has bees a great source of information. So I first want to thank everyone, those asking the questions and those answering. So I thought I will share my tank details with you and see if anyone can offer any information on anything.

I have a 30inch wide, 12 inch deep 18inch high tank with under-gravel filtration powered by an Interpet Aqua-air AP2 air pump. I calculated that I have about 90liters of water in the tank so I change 10litres a week. I use tap water which is treated with Stress Coat and I treat the tank once a week with Stress Zymes which apparently has” 300 million live bacteria per teaspoonful”. I do not know if that is true as I stopped counting at 3,876,908 bacteria (kidding).

I have 11 Cardinal Tetras, 4 red Guppies a male and female Dwarf Gourami, one male black Molly, one Albino Peppered Corydoras. This evening I bought a Bristlenose Pleco to deal with the algae on the inside glass of the tank. I have one sad looking plant and the rest are plastic. I also use Interpet Liquisil General Tonic. I use all water products according to the instructions.

Now I would like to have a stress free and happy fish tank with a low casualty rate. I have generally browsed thru the threads hear but the questions I have for anyone who can help me is

Have I reached the limit of tank in terms of the amount of fish I can keep? A book says I can go up to 22 2inch fishes
It seems that the under-gravel filtration is controversial? What is the consensus here?
I hate changing water using a 10 litre bucket and hose. In the 21st century there must be a powered alternative.
I partial hoover and churn around the gravel that I can reach with the weekly water change. Is this Ok?
I use a timer to put the aquarium lights on from 7am to 12midnight. Is this OK.
How do I get rid of the fine particles in the water.

Is there anything else you think I or any other newbie that may be reading this should know?

 

[AtodaJ]

I'll give some of your questions a shot!

...I treat the tank once a week with Stress Zymes which apparently has” 300 million live bacteria per teaspoonful”. I do not know if that is true...

Couple things you might already know if you have been around these forums for a while. Stress Zyme, Cycle and similar products don't work. Regardless, you should not have to be "treating" your aquarium with new bacteria every weak. Once your biological filter is established it will take care of itself for the most part. The only product that actually works for this purpose is calle Bio Spira and you only have to use it once.

The fact that you have to keep using Sress Zyme weekly is evidence that it didn't actually cycle your tank. Once you stop using it you may have to go through the cycle process. Grab some Bio Spira and that will fix it though... just one application.

It seems that the under-gravel filtration is controversial? What is the consensus here?

Most peeps think this filter type is a dinosaur and I agree. It can cause problems in the future by clogging up and then you have to tear down your tank to clean it properly. I'd suggest moving to a power filter when you get a chance. Much easier to deal with.

I hate changing water using a 10 litre bucket and hose. In the 21st century there must be a powered alternative.
I partial hoover and churn around the gravel that I can reach with the weekly water change. Is this Ok?

If you are using a syphon (not just a hose) then it shouldn't be much of a pain. Any hose can be a syphon I guess but the ones used for fish tank have some nice attachments for cleaning. Once you get the syphon going it is very easy and you can simply use the syphon to vacum the gravel as you remove the water for water changes. If you get a cannister filter like a Magnum 350 then you can use that to "pump" the water out but seems more of a hassle then just using a syphon. :?

I use a timer to put the aquarium lights on from 7am to 12midnight. Is this OK.

I run my lights from 11:30 am to 10:30 pm. I try to provide as much light as the tank would get if it were outside plus I also have Cardinals and they are much more at ease in the dark. Your aquarium doesn't have much in the way of hiding spots so I'd cut back on the light imho.

How do I get rid of the fine particles in the water.

I use a particle filter in my cannister setup to filter out the small particles. I wouldn't expect there to be lots of small particles floating around after a couple of days though... maybe a bad side effect of a gravel filter? :? If you get a power filter then simply add the particle filter once in a while to remove the pieces along with syphoning the gunk out.

Well... that is all I got for ya. I hope a tiny bit of it is helpful.

 

[Allivymar]

*snickers* You quitter. Giving up at 3,876,908...some people.

Heh, welcome to Aquariumadvice Gman! Think I have some answers to your questions, and whatever I miss someone else will fill in

22 2 inch fish in a ~24g tank. Hrmm. Most of us here don't go by the 1 inch/1 gallon rule as its very inaccurate, although that book seems to have ignored even that old adage LOL. None of that takes into consideration fish temperaments, water parameter needs, space needs or messiness. You would do well to add a few more corydoras; they do best in a minimum group of 3, although you'll have much more amusement watching groups of 6 or more Also, do know plecs are the poop kings of the fishtank. Be prepared to do LOTS of gravel vacs. You will also need to get some sort of driftwood/bogwood, as suckermouth cats need the lignin in the wood for digestion. Also, you DID QT the plec right *hint hint*

And yeah, many here aren't fond of the UGF, although there are a few who love em. Basically with all the new technology out there, and the newer types of filters, there is no need to deal with the work n mess n occasional problems of the UGF.

A PYTHON! Makes water changes SO much easier. Awesome bit of machinery; I strongly suggest one. You can check em out here: http://www.pythonproducts.com/ Heh, you'll need one after getting that bristlenose.

I run my lights from 7-10. And of course my tanks are in the living room, and get plenty of ambient light til we go to sleep, which is rather late on weekends. I haven't seen any negative effects, although others may have a more definitive answer then I.

Adding activated carbon or diatomaceous earth helps remove fine particles, but I don't know how one does that with a UGF.

And just to check, you have water testing kits yes? Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and Ph? Imperative items to have, as its the only way to be sure the water is healthy for the fish. I'm guessing you have a handle on the nitrogen cycle; if not, let us know

Oh and all those counted bacteria? Were a waste of time Stresszyme is completely unneccessary; it doesn't even have the correct bacteria (it has heterotrophic bacteria which ONLY eat ammonia when there is no organic waste. If you have pooing fish in your tank you have organic waste and the Stresszyme is just a waste of your money). You don't need to add the correct nitrifying bacteria on a regular basis either once the tank has cycled; the tank will contain all the bacteria you need barring any mishaps.

 

[LondonGman]

Thanks for the response AtodaJ and Allivymar. I feet like a school kid who had just handed in his homework to the teacher for scoring. And it seems I have gotten a few things wrong. Good, I want to get the benefits of your experience and knowledge.

Ok so the zymes are rubbish, It is now in the bin. If it does not do anything then I presume that is the end of that. I will check water condition next week and if necessary add the Bio Spira if I can find it. I took a water sample to the shop when I bought the pleco (as usual, for me) and got the thumbs up on the 4 tests they do. I regularly take samples down and I luckily do never have a problem with my water quality. They claim that it is because I use the zymes regularly. Hmmmmm, contradiction.

I browsed thru the threads here and most people will agree with you about the undergravel filter. So should I take out the UGF? What model power filter would be best suitable for me? I would like something discreet and not in the tank? I can locate it in a cupboard under the tank.

My sink is too far to use the python, so will have to use the hose and bucket. Bugger. I wish there was something form NASA or similar that would recycle the water so that I (and everyone else) would not have to change water. What do big shops do?

I like to see the fishes while I am at home so I will have the timer go out when I am at work during the day except weekends.. Like a daily siesta. Is that a problem?

I would like to add more corydoras but worried about the amount of fishes in the tank. I did not know that the pleco was “poop king” but I researched the fish and they don’t grow too big (6” max) and they eat algae. The shop I buy my fishes from quarantine their fishes before selling them. I presume that is what QT means. This shop had a bad experience ages ago so they “QT” all new fishes for their’s and customer benefit before selling them. One problem I have noticed with the pleco is that it is gnawing the paint off my “sunken ship” decoration.

So any suggestions on the filter, quantity of fish, timer or anything else. please

 

[LondonGman]

I just read an article here on the Wet/Dry filter
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=7593
is this what I need or is this excessive for my needs.

 

[AtodaJ]

Glad we could help.

Ok so the zymes are rubbish, It is now in the bin. If it does not do anything then I presume that is the end of that. I will check water condition next week and if necessary add the Bio Spira if I can find it. I took a water sample to the shop when I bought the pleco (as usual, for me) and got the thumbs up on the 4 tests they do. I regularly take samples down and I luckily do never have a problem with my water quality. They claim that it is because I use the zymes regularly. Hmmmmm, contradiction.

Here is a good explanation of the various products out there provided by the following website. Your tank will most likely be fine since its been 3 months or so. The Stess Zyme is doing nothing as far as your biological filter is concerned:

http://fishstoretn.com/bio_spira.html


"Bio-Spira is a live nitrifying bacteria....the strains that actually go to work.

The other cycling products are what is called lithotrophs and heterotrophs....these are not nitrifying bacteria, but instead, enzymes that help prime the water for the growth of the "nitrifying" bacteria. The "new" improved CYCLE by Hagen .....uses a protective bio-film called "flocs" to en-capsulate an increased quantity of heterotrophic bacteria (Bacillus sp.) called cysts.... they sink to bottom, bio-film dissolves and then, starts a growth process for the "nitrifying bacteria. Again, not the real bacteria...but a faster way to grow it. (Similar to this BACTINETTS product ...available in Europe/from Germany). Both are still slower than Bio-spira which adds the live already existing bacteria."

I browsed thru the threads here and most people will agree with you about the undergravel filter. So should I take out the UGF? What model power filter would be best suitable for me? I would like something discreet and not in the tank? I can locate it in a cupboard under the tank.

My suggestion would be an Emperor Power Filter (wet/dry filter). They work very well and are easy to maintain. Unfortunately they won't be "out of sight" though as they hand on the back of your tank. However, it isn't really an eye sore imho. It adds a mini waterfall effect that is quite pleasant and you really can't beat the low maintenance. Here is what it looks like:

http://www.franksaquarium.com/Marinelandemperor.htm

If you really want to have a filter out of the aquarium and out of view then a cannister filter would work well. However, if you don't like the effort involved in changing water using a syphon you will HATE the effort involved in maintaining a cannister filter. As such I'd go for the power filter.

As for the undergravel filter... I'd put the Emperor Filter in and run them both simaltaneously for at least a month. Then simply unplug your UGF. I don't think you need to remove it unless you want to for some reason.

My sink is too far to use the python, so will have to use the hose and bucket. Bugger. I wish there was something form NASA or similar that would recycle the water so that I (and everyone else) would not have to change water. What do big shops do?

Big shops use a sump tank. Basically they hook up several tanks together. Then they hook up another large fishless tank that only has water and biological filtration media and stuff. The water flows through all the tanks and the fishless tank as well. When they need to do water changes they simply change a bunch of water from the fishless tank. Effectively they just did a water change for several tanks since they all share the same water! The fishless tank is usually in the back of the shop out of sight or sometimes it is on the floor below the other tanks.

I like to see the fishes while I am at home so I will have the timer go out when I am at work during the day except weekends.. Like a daily siesta. Is that a problem?

Sure. I'm assuming the tank isn't in a completely darkened room while you are away at work so its going to get some ambient lighting anyways.

One problem I have noticed with the pleco is that it is gnawing the paint off my “sunken ship” decoration.

Make sure you have some driftwood in the aquarium. Your Pleco needs that for digestion purposes and is most likely trying to tell you that by vandalizing your sunken ship... hehe

Peace!

 

[Guest]

Seriously, one thing I would add is you need not hurry in getting rid of the UGF. your tank is only 3 months old, the ugf will not be clogged up for close to a year.

I still have a tank with a ugf (my QT tank) and only break it all the way down every 2 years or so.

I do aggree that HOB or Cannisters are superior, but you are having success, 3 months into the hobby; this is a GOOD THING. Don't mess with anything too much just yet. Enjoy your current success, and make plans to change up some equipment down the road a bit. That way you can do your research, save up some € and get what you want.

My sink is too far to use the python, so will have to use the hose and bucket.

Wow, they make a 50 footer, that far to the sink? 8O

London, you are doing fine so far, any addional steps you take, go slow.

 

[LondonGman]

I will get driftwood tomorrow before a £5 pleco destroys my £25 sunken ship. Surprised no-one mentioned that the bristlenose plecos gnaws EVERYTHING.

Called my local and they do not stock the Emperor Filter Systems so will have to search for it. The manufacturers www.marineland.com do not list dealers outside the USA and I am in the UK. Is there an alternative that may be available here? My dealer sells the http://www.eheim.com. Ease of use is the most important factor. Anyway I will call around tomorrow.

I would have liked to get a second opinion on this filter issue. In Google and here, everyone ends up pointing to copies of the same article at http://www.bestfish.com/ug.html. However I have been swayed by a few people here who had to clean an UGF. If I had known when I bought a UGF that it would have to be TAKEN OUT from under 2inches of gravel and plants and decor, I would have saved the money spent on the air pump for the HOB filter. Bugger.

Thanks a lot dude(s). Do you want my kudos points (LOL, kidding, just read about them). I may hang around here and pass on my little knowledge. That way I may learn more. If no one minds.

Addition
I just spent 10 minute typing and editing the above in MS Word to post here when I see the reply from corvuscorax and I feel a bit relieved that I do not have to buy a HOB filter this weekend. This will give me time to research and navigate my way through all the filter options, python and different scenarios so that I fully understand this whole fish keeping business.

This forum is doing its job. Well!

 

[Allivymar]

Heh, is why we sucked you in Gman; you increase your knowledge, form your own opinions, start sharing em with others and everybody's happy. If you notice, I ask questions almost as much as I answer em LOL where do you think I get half my info?

There is a do-it-yourself way to make a Python; its a helluva lot cheaper and you can add as much hose as you want. I'll see if I can go back thru the posts and find out who made one; they love it.

Heh and have a few extra kudos; then you'll have enough to throw a few around

 

[Allivymar]

Aha! Found the link: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_python.php

And it was HOLLIEO who successfully made one

 

[LondonGman]

I have been seriously looking into the python thing and it seems that tap water is piped directly into the tank and the chlorine remover chemicals added directly into the tank too. I thought you had to treat the water before it is added to the tank other wise the fishes are in contact with tap water which as chemicals. I appreciate that we drink the water but I did not think that it would be right to subject the fishes to them. Also got to find the gear in the UK.

 

[Allivymar]

Actually I have yet to have a prob with adding the tap water directly to the tank along with the dechlor (as opposed to treating it first). Most dechlors claim to work instantly, and so far, I believe em. I drip the dechlor into the water stream as the tap water flows into the tank (of course I match temps before letting the water in the tank) and none of my fish have ever shown any sort of negative reaction. I think, if you ask the other folk here who use Pythons, you'll get similar responses.

In fact, the only thing I notice is my fish think the Python tube is some sort of either monster or food vending machine. They are always trying to pick at it as I'm gravel vaccing and I can't tell if they are trying to get to the debris going up the tube, or attacking it LOL

 

[Guest]

I drip the dechlor into the water stream as the tap water flows into the tank (of course I match temps before letting the water in the tank) and none of my fish have ever shown any sort of negative reaction. I think, if you ask the other folk here who use Pythons, you'll get similar responses.

Precisely, just add water and dechlor at the same time, never killed a fish, or even witnessed signs of stress.

 

[AtodaJ]

If you are changing less than 20% of your water then I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'd drop in the dechlor as a precaution but there are those in the business that don't think its even necessary. Here is another view of dechlorinating products and their proper uses... just another perspective for you to consider so you can make up your own mind.

http://www.aquariumfish.net/information/water_conditioner.htm#top2

 

[vega]

Btw, I think most of us here would like to treat the water 1st before adding to tank but sometime when the tank water volume is too much it just not practical to have a container big enough for treating the water (imaging you have 300L and 60L (20% volume of main tank) tank where 1st is with fish another just for treating water!!!!)(not mention the Qtank)(and from what i understand most us of here have MTS; i have 3 ). So this left us no other solution but adding the tap water directly to tank.

 

[Guest]

Btw, I think most of us here would like to treat the water 1st before adding to tank but sometime when the tank water volume is too much it just not practical to have a container big enough for treating the water

That would defeat the whole purpose of the Python no spill! I dont want to deal with buckets for water changes. I have been totally comfortable putting dechlor in at the same time as the tap water for many years now.

 

[LondonGman]

A friend put me off buying a bigger tank because of the water changing thing. You guys probably change the water in your bigger tanks more easily than I do with my smaller tank. Must get python in UK.

So basically if using an aquarium, I should change up to 20% of the water twice weekly and I do not actually have to add chemicals. That is going to take a while to grasp especially with all the water treatment products in the shops. My shop said I had to use Stress Coat because it has “Aloe Vera”. I have bought 3 bottles to date. I feel like a prat.

Another product that I have been frightened into buying is Interpet Liquisil General Tonic. It claims to reduce background levels of bacteria, fungus and parasites in aquarium. I use it once a month. Are you going to say that I am killing the natural bacteria in the tank, because if so….

 

[Allivymar]

Heh, been there done that. When I started I had NO idea what the cycle was. I remember being sold some sort of "water clarifier" cause gee, everytime I cleaned out the tank and the filter there would be all this STUFF in the water a day or two later and the tank would be all nasty cloudy...Oi. Don't ask me how my big angel managed to survive the first 6 months with me LOL he's about 2 yrs old now and I still have guilt.

Couple of points:

I do water changes pretty much 1x a week on my 55g and 25g; I'll do a water change every 5 days or so on the 10g. Thing is, you need to get a grasp on your water parameters first to get a basic idea how often you need to change. When I had the loaches, angels and the plec in the 25g I did 2-3 changes a week. Right now, with the changes I do my parameters stay at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 5-15 pm nitrates. When that crew was in the 25g I would regularly hit 25-30 ppm nitrates every coupla days.

The ONLY thing I add regularly is a dechlorinator. I use stuff that only removes chlorine and chloramine (that WILL kill off your bacteria as well as irritate the hell out of your fish). Aloe vera and anything else which claims to "help with slime coat" is unneccessary. Actually, I've read the slime coat "helpers" actually irritate the fish; thats what causes the fish to produce more slime. Aloe doesn't do that...erm, actually it doesn't do anything for fish at all. If a fish is healthy, it has all the slime coat it needs.

I'm unfamiliar with Interpret's tonic; my guess is its probably unneccesary and well..is probably not doing anything, but without knowing much about it, whats in it and how it works I can't say for sure. Can you get us an ingredient list? I'm guessing it's not killing off your nitrifying bacteria, else you'd be having MAJOR probs, but I'm curious.

 

[LondonGman]

They do not have a website (www.interpet.co.uk) and the packaging does not list any ingredients whatsoever. However unless you guys are giving your fishes a regular dose of fish tonic then I will stop that too. Trying now to think of another question. hmmm

 

[Allivymar]

Hrmm. Couldn't find exact ingredients, but I did discover it is NOT to be used with inverts (like shrimp for example), sharks n rays. Says to me there is some sort of poison in there that doesn't affect scaled fish as much as it will scaleless fish or inverts; copper would be my first guess but obviously I don't know for sure.

Aha! It DOES contain copper...did a little more research: "Interpet have now confirmed that Liquisil does indeed contain copper." from http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fishyweb/Malawi/tjournal.htm

Avoid it.