Newbie to plants

[Fishperson]

I am starting a 10g heavily planted asian biotype. I would like to have
- a school of celestial pearl danios
- a small group of otos
- a flame dwarf gourami
- and a group of red cherry shrimp.

Here are my questions.
1. Will that stock work? And how many of each kind?
2. Do you know any kinds of plants, preferably that come from asia, that you would recommend for a beginner with my stock?
3. Any tips I should know?
4. What kind of fertilizer/substrate/stuff should I get for the plants? I am thinking that I want a black sand substrate, but I have heard that you can put some kind of substrate for plants underneath the sand that you want people to see on top.

This is not my first tank by the way, so yes, I know about cycling.

for the help in advance!

 

[Rivercats]

If you want black sand but also want a plant substrate underneath look into Eco Complete's new "fine" grade. You could mix it half and half with your sand or use it alone.

You need to consider lighting and plants. Pick out the lighting you want then appropriate plants that grow under that type lighting OR pick out the plants you want (which is what I suggest), figure out if they need low, medium, or high light then pick out an appropriate fixture. Just remember that the higher the light you go with the more fertilizers, CO2 or liquid carbon, the plants will need.

You could do a nice little school of CPD's but I would suggest looking into a sparkling gourami or licorice gourami. They IMO would be much more compatible with shrimp and CPD's. CPD's are shy fish and a DG might keep them too stressed.

 

[Fishperson]

Ok, I will look into sparkling gouramis. I like the look of them. I am pretty sure I only want medium to low light plants. I have heard a bit about and like:
Java moss
Crypts
Vals
Java Fern
Blyxa Japonica
Temple Plant (hygrophilia corymbosa)
Downoi (pogostemon helferi)
Cyperus helferi

and a few others. Any comments about these species in particular? Anything I should know about the care of them. I really like all of them, and I was wondering if they will do well with:
ph of 7.5 - 8
soft water
0 ammonia and nitrite
<40 nitrate.
Thanks!

 

[Rivercats]

In a planted tank nitrates should be 10-20ppm and phosphates .5-1.5ppms.

As for the plants, Cyperus helferi and Blyxa Japonica both need medium light and Downoi does better in med high to high light. Do depending on the light you might have to rethink those. Otherwise the list is fine.

 

[DeathclawRowe1]

Java ferns. Argentine swords. Drift wood. Tetra fertilizer. Anubias. Etc

 

[Fishperson]

Ok, is phosphates something that has to be measured? If the plants are hardy and need low light, will it be okay if I don't measure phosphate? And if I should measure it, what test kit do you recommend? I meant ph level by ph, not phosphate, just so you know. And also, does anyone use flourish excel? And what root tabs do you recommend? I have so many questions...

 

[DeathclawRowe1]

Ok, is phosphates something that has to be measured? If the plants are hardy and need low light, will it be okay if I don't measure phosphate? And if I should measure it, what test kit do you recommend? I meant ph level by ph, not phosphate, just so you know. And also, does anyone use flourish excel? And what root tabs do you recommend? I have so many questions...

Don't even worry about phosphates unless its a SW and all those plants I mentioned are hardy just throw them in and give them light

 

[DeathclawRowe1]

Water Lillie's are cool plants from petco too

 

[azmodan]

Ok, is phosphates something that has to be measured? If the plants are hardy and need low light, will it be okay if I don't measure phosphate? And if I should measure it, what test kit do you recommend? I meant ph level by ph, not phosphate, just so you know. And also, does anyone use flourish excel? And what root tabs do you recommend? I have so many questions...

Phosphates are indeed important to planted tanks but you don't have to worry too much about them with a low light tank. There are tons of great asian low light plants that you could do so you'd definitely have plenty of options. Flourish Excel is great as a carbon supplement and many use it. A lot of people use Metricide 14 too, which is essentially just a cheaper, more concentrated form of glutaraldehyde (the active component of Excel, the "carbon"). In the beginning I'd say just start off with some Excel, as a 500ml bottle on Amazon runs for under $10 and should last you a pretty long time for just a 10g. You'll also need to look into fertilizers. Fertilizers for the water column can be bought in liquid form (Flourish Comprehensive and API Leaf Zone is a good and easy combo to use) and can be put in at each PWC, or you can look into a dry fert dosing regiment like PPS-Pro, which requires smaller daily dosing. Dry ferts are always cheaper in the long term. Root tabs are necessary for any heavy root feeder like crypts and swords. Most out there are fine but I'd definitely recommend jetajockey's Ru Tabs found on Peabody's Paradise. He sells 50 for $10 and it's pretty hard to beat that price (50 would last you a very long time too). I also use DIY Osmocote+ tabs, which are extremely cost effective as well.

Just a quick note on your ideas for fauna: Start off with 15 or so RCS and as long as your tank is healthy they'll start reproducing extremely quickly. A 10g can easily support a 100. For fish I'd probably go with 1 small school of nano fish (CPDs are nice, as are ember tetras, chili rasboras, spotted blue eyed rainbowfish, and so forth) and call it a day. A sparkling gourami is a good addition too as any of the larger gouramis (honey included) would likely pick off the shrimp. But really a 10g isn't a ton of room and with all those shrimp I'd highly recommend understocking in the fish department. I'd also avoid otos -- they need to be in a group and 10g is just too small for one. A nerite snail or two and a couple of Amano shrimp would work well. Trust me, once you get the hang of plants and start getting some real growth soon the plants will become just as or even more important than the fish.

Also, just for fun here's a pic of my low tech planted 10g. My lighting falls in the medium category (Finnex Fugeray) and I do not run any sort of pressurized CO2. EcoComplete substrate (1 bag, $20 on Amazon), basic weekly ferts (the aforementioned Flourish Comp and API Leaf zone, although I am switching to PPS-Pro when those finish), root tabs for my crypts, daily Excel, and about a 7 hour photoperiod will a little extra sunlight from my kitchen window. Low tech, low maintenance, healthy growth.

 

[Rivercats]

Don't even worry about phosphates unless its a SW and all those plants I mentioned are hardy just throw them in and give them light

This isn't true in the least bit. In a low light low tech tank you don't need to monitor phosphates BUT in a med to high light tank that is planted you need to know what phosphate levels are. Phosphates are a macro nutrient that plants need. A level of .5-1.5ppms is a good level in a planted tank.

 

[Fishperson]

According to my towns water quality report orthophosphate is between .7 and .9. Is that okay?
Also, I decided that I would not include the otos. I am thinking of starting with about 10 shrimp, and hoping they will reproduce. I don't really like the sparkling gourami that much after all. Any other centerpiece fish from southeast asia?

 

[Fishperson]

I think I will get black, ecocomplete substrate, and put a bit of black sand on top. Will that be okay for my plants? And also, I like dwarf hairgrass, would that do well with the substrate that I mentioned?

 

[azmodan]

It'd do fine in that substrate but DHG would need very high lighting and the appropriate carbon/fert combo to get real growth.

 

[Fishperson]

I got bad info from a site that said you can grow it easily in low light. Oh well. I will stick with java moss for the carpet part.

 

[azmodan]

Yeah there aren't many options for low light carpet plants. Some grassier looking plants that could be an ok substitute (but still aren't carpet plants) are dwarf sag and crypt parva. The parva does grow very slowly though but it makes for a very nice foreground plant. You could try Marsilea minuta too but it grows exxxxtremely slowly in low light. It can also be very aggravating to plant, hah. Personally I'd very much recommend dwarf sag.

 

[Fishperson]

Yeah there aren't many options for low light carpet plants. Some grassier looking plants that could be an ok substitute (but still aren't carpet plants) are dwarf sag and crypt parva. The parva does grow very slowly though but it makes for a very nice foreground plant. You could try Marsilea minuta too but it grows exxxxtremely slowly in low light. It can also be very aggravating to plant, hah. Personally I'd very much recommend dwarf sag.

Dwarf sag is from north america apparently. I am looking for plants from south east asia.

 

[azmodan]

Ah right, forgot! The crypt parva is a good option for a foreground plant at least then. Also if you're going for an Asian biotope I think that automatically cuts the otos out too anyway.

 

[Fishperson]

Ah right, forgot! The crypt parva is a good option for a foreground plant at least then. Also if you're going for an Asian biotope I think that automatically cuts the otos out too anyway.

Yeah, for some reason, with no research, I thought that otos were from asia. It just seems like that. Oh, well.

Some say that crypt parva needs medium light. Do you have experience with this plant? From three different websites, I have seen low light, medium light, and medium-bright light. Which is it? I really like it otherwise.

This just occured to me, but how do you, if you do, vacuum the substrate where the plants are? I have seen some tanks with the whole tank covered in java moss on the bottom. How do they vacuum the substrate?

 

[azmodan]

Yeah, for some reason, with no research, I thought that otos were from asia. It just seems like that. Oh, well.

Some say that crypt parva needs medium light. Do you have experience with this plant? From three different websites, I have seen low light, medium light, and medium-bright light. Which is it? I really like it otherwise.

This just occured to me, but how do you, if you do, vacuum the substrate where the plants are? I have seen some tanks with the whole tank covered in java moss on the bottom. How do they vacuum the substrate?

The parva probably deserves close to medium light but in my experience it'll work with lower light too (just not lowwww light). You'll just see slower growth is all, but just remember always to have a root tab near it. Most crypts are pretty slow growers anyway, and parva is maybe one of the slower ones.

In terms of vacuuming I wondered this myself a long while back. The answer is you don't vacuum the substrate. You can get as close as you can if you want but you definitely don't want to jam it in there and mess up the delicate root structures of your plants. Most plant substrates (such as Eco Complete) are too fine for that anyway. What I usually do is the twirling technique (quick rapid twirls in the water as close to the substate as possible to stir up mulm) and I use a turkey baster to squirt out dead corners that the filtration can't get to. Water flow is important because some areas will accumulate with mulm, which is why a lot of people use power heads for larger sized aquariums so there's good circulation in all parts of the tank. But the mulm isn't a problem in my smaller tanks. The plants love it and my snails and shrimp do their little jobs with it too, and it doesn't reach a point where it's unsightly as long as I maintain my weekly maintenance.

 

[Fishperson]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Recently, I have been on the lookout for lights. Any lights you would recommend/anything I should know about lights? I am shooting for 30 watts.