Opinions please

[BrianNY]

I'd appreciate some suggestions on how best to deal with the issues in the two pics below. 1. An algae that unless I remove every other day seems to take over the tank. 2. Yellowing leaves on the giant val.

The tank has 2.65 wpg. Photo period is three hours in the AM and five hours in the PM.

CO2 injected 18ppm
Nitrates 10ppm
Phospates .5ppm

I'm dosing KNO3, K2SO4, and Plantex B trace.

 

[workfortheman]

Nice pics, very nice tank! I'm afraid I am in no place to give you advice, but I have heard in treating algaes that physical removal coupled with periods of darkness can really choke them to death. Worked with my cyanobacterial algae bloom. . .

 

[Cafe Jeff]

An industrious Otto or a Plec that won't grow so large? Jeff

 

[TankGirl]

Hopefully Betowess will spot this post (or PM him) because if this is that fluffy, flossy, easily removed algae I believe he found a way to get rid of it. I have gotten rid of it in my tanks with the use of American Flag-Fish - they absolutely chowed down on this stuff, which was not touched by my ancistrus. SAE probably would eat it too.

One theory about the "siesta" period is that it actually makes it harder for the plants to really get going, and now that you are dosing your micros and macros properly you can go ahead and use a full photo period.

Your phosphate seems a bit high to me but in my tanks it seems to produce BBA, not the flossy stuff.

 

[malkore]

I have that same algae in my 5gallon betta tank currently. I think mine is related to the flourite substrate....i used the same leftover bag I'd used in my old 20gallon, which also had these weird 'fluffy' algae issues. I think it's too high of an iron content...but that's just because it seems a lot like thread algae which I have read is caused by higher iron levels.

 

[BrianNY]

I've an unknown number of Otos and six ancistrus in this tank so that isn't the answer. I'm thinking that perhaps this is a lack of iron in the tank.

 

[BrianNY]

well we posted at the same time malkore.

I've an Seachem iron test kit which registered 0 on the iron. The substrate is eco complete.

This stuff sure is a pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hashbaz]

BrianNy, you know more about this stuff than I do... But my first thought was also iron, so it sounds like a good place to start.

 

[Guest]

Most iron tests aren't very good, so don't be positive that's it. I think your jungle val needs a bit of thinning out, and a full 10 hours of light. Looks like too many plants packed in a small area, I really would remove some of them when they get packed in kinda tight like that. I'd bet they are still connected by the runners? Then the shaded plants take energy from the taller plants and none of them look their best.
I have 2 tanks with jungle val, the one with the fluorite substrate gets dosed with Leaf Zone (Iron and Potassium) every water change. I only dose 1/2 the recommended dose. I remove maybe 2-3 plants every 6 weeks or so, but that's mostly due to the aquascape in that tank, and the val trying to spread everywhere.

 

[Guest]

After recently removing most of the plants in a tank with Eco. Afterwards, I ran across the same hair algae problem. From the research I did. It appears to be to much iron.

Seeing how theres very few plants in the tank right now. I picked off as much as possible. Did 50% WCs every couple of days and it went away. Until I reaquascape the tank. I plan on not adding any ferts. With 50% WC's every couple of days, what plants that are in the tank will get enough nutrients.

Might try doing a few WC and only doss Phos and Nitra accordingly for a week or two and see if it helps reid the algae.

On my corkscrew vals, I've noticed they start to yellow and melt when to many suckers are left attached to the mother plant. If your not severing the suckers from the mother, you might give it a try. More than two or three suckers can really get vals looking terrible.

Could be low Pott as well. Whats your dossing regiment?

Edit: I've never bothered trying an iron test kit. From what I have read, most are inaccurate.

 

[betowess]

Hey Brian, Just saw your pm on my email and jumped right over to AA.

Well, does it grow on your glass? That algae looks a tiny bit lighter in color than the stuff I finally wiped out, but very similar. I agree with Tank Girl to beware of dosing phosphates though the .5 seems o.k. I would crank your CO2 up to near 30ppm as it will spur the plants to out compete the algae. Also, I would get at least 11 hours photo period and try the three hour siesta. What a pain to do 50% water changes every week on that big of tank. I am starting to not do it weekly but more like every ten days to two weeks. I have thought of posting a thread to discuss this idea.

Are you running all 330 watts of your AH lights? You may have too much light. I had more problems when I had more than one 55 watt AH Supply going on my 26bow. IMO, its either too much nitrate or too much light ... or a combination. Lots of fast growing stems will do the trick for sure, though it will take a little while to find the balance. I think my algae problems went away when my Alternanthera reineckii pink started growing like a weed. I literally cut about a gallon off the tops of that plant almost every week in my little 26 gallon. The more I cut the more they grow. I'll shoot a pic and post maybe tommorrow. As you know, the macro balance thing is the key. I would take it easy on the ferts too. Hopefully the fish will give you enough nitrates and fish food enough for the phosphates.

Also, (because iron is near impossible to measure) on the Krib someone suggested that one should just add a little Seachem iron when the plants look too yellow. If that doesn't do the trick, add some more till they green up and follow that regimen. Works for me. Lastly, on second thought, until you get the algae under control, maybe you should keep up the water changes weekly at least at 30 to 40%. Good luck. You'll get it. It took a while for my tank to balance, but lately I literally haven't scraped the glass in months and the plants grow like crazy. Also, I am not fertilizing very regularly either; usually once or rarely twice a week, except when I forget or run out of time. Sorry for the long post. Bob

 

[Guest]

This is certainly a great topic. I still feel this is high iron.

Brian, your Phos, Nitra and CO2 are all well within acceptable levels. Assuming thier running constant.

Plantex CSM+B has 7% Iron. Factor in the Iron in Eco and you might be running a little high on Iron.

Seeing how this is on your big Discus tank. Frequent, massive water changes is probobly the last thing you want to hear. What's your calcs/ regimine look like on the CSM+B? Sure your not giving to much lovin with the micros?

Green spot algae on the glass and older growth plant leaves is usually a good sign of too much lighting. As much as we hate algae, a touch of green spot ocassionally, can be a good thing. If you have no signs of green spot. Perhaps you could add 1-2 hours of lighting? This would help, the plants compete against algae.

I recall you've been reaquascaping and adding pres. Co2. Is it one this particular tank by chance?

 

[dcontes77]

The American Flag Fish should take care of this!
They are among the the best for "Hairy algae".

 

[betowess]

Brian,

I just uploaded a pic I took last nite of my 26 gallon bow. I don't know how to put them into these quick replies so it should be in my gallery soon. I look forward to having some space to work with once I finally pop for an 80 or 90 gal.

I don't think the algae problem is iron, but I could be wrong. I'm thinking its the light, and fert balance. Perhaps too much micro nutrients, like Mojo suggested. Nothing brought it on for me like Seachem's "Flourish" micros, so I rarely use that stuff unless I'm feeling brave.

 

[BrianNY]

Hmmm. More food for thought. I really appreciate the replies here.

Perhaps a little more background might help you all help me as you've asked a lot of good questions.

This is my 125g planted discus tank so flag fish are out of the question (Thanks dcontes). Yes Mojo, I've recently done alot of aquascaping in this tank but this algae has persisted for many months. It began when I added the 330watts of lighting.

I ran this tank for months without any CO2 or dosing any ferts. As I knew this was going to be the case I filled the tank with water sprite, hygro, and giant vals. My aquascaping consisted of removing all of the water sprite and most of the hygro and
and adding a lot of glosso. Still a work in progress.

I didn't begin dosing ferts until I added the CO2 injection (about 3 months ago). Prior to that nitrates were zero. I began to get the nitrates up by dosing 4ml daily of KNO3 until the tank got to 10ppm. I was much more generous with the micros. Dosing 6ml every other day. But thinking this was part of the problem, I haven't dosed the plantex in the last month. I'm now dosing the KNO3 and K2SO4 with 4ml each after each weekly 50% water change. If I have to increase the water changes it will be a royal PIA but...............

I do get that spot algae. It is much more prevalent on the side of the tank that reveives the most direct sunlight.

Thanks again for offering your suggestions.

Brian

 

[TankGirl]

Consider eliminating the "siesta" so the plants don't have any interruption in their photosynthesis, now that you have CO2. I quit my siesta after I started with DIY and as long as I pay attention to my micros and don't allow the CO2 to run out I have only green spot here and there.

 

[chrism]

ah i thought it was something to do with the amount of phosphates, i've got the same stuff. i remember reading a post on plantgeek.net about it and how to get rid of it, but annoyingly my machine crashed before i could bookmark it and then i couldnt find it again!

if you do solve it, i'd love to know how

 

[Guest]

I'm sticking to my guns and saying it high iron. I could very well be wrong, but everything points in that direction.Seeing how your using Eco and dossing CSM+B a little on the heavy side. All your other para's are great, if thier running constant.

I can't recall what I mixed my micro's at for dropping, it's been so long ago, since I mixed it. However I use Eco as well and only doss micro's once a week. Sometimes skipping a week.

When I had this problem a few weeks ago. It appeared this algae seamed to spread more with the lights off. I'd wake up in the morning at it appeared to have gotten longer and spread over night, while the lights were off. Have you noticed this by chance?

I agree with TG. Either remove the lighting siesta or shorten it. Let the plants fight it out with the algae. With 18ppm CO2, one of thems going to win.

I run my planted Discus tank at 18 ppm CO2 a well. Probobly for the same reasons you do. To keep PH swings to a minimum during WC's and keep from having to trim plants every weekend.

Consider this. On your next WC. Pick as much of the algae off as possible by hand. Do your routine 50% WC. Afterwards only doss for Nitra and Phos accordingly. Don't add any Macro or Micro ferts. Observe for a couple of days and see if the algae receeds or atleast slows in growth rate (man this stuff grows, spreads fast). If you start seeing signs of plant yellowing, you might add some Pott and Mag, but I would'nt add any micros to this tank for 2 or 3 weeks.

Micros are just that, micro amounts. A small bit ocasionally, goes a long ways. Where as Macros need to be dossed in larger amounts and more often.

Oh, I almost forgot. I ran down to the LFS and picked up a single bunch of floating stem plants as well, for 1.69$. I can't even tell you what species it is, all I wanted was something to help chew up nutrients. Within a week this crazy plant quadrupaled in size. Every week I have to toss 2/3's of it on the compost pile it grow so fast. If you feel its a high nutrient problem. Certainly worth tossing a couple of cheap floating stem plants into the tank to help chew up nutrients. Beats doing frequent WC on a 125g Discuss tank 8O

I'm actually in the process of slowly piecing together a 120g Discus tank. I've pretty much decided a UV filter for 80-100 bucks online, is a bargain when you consider how much you've already invested into an x large planted tank.

Keep us posted. This is a great post for future reference.

 

[BrianNY]

OK. You've both convinced me. No more siesta period in this tank. You're right about not wanting to do anymore water changes Mojo. Especially since I have 8 other discus tanks and this planted one is the only one in my den.

I'll keep a photo record of it weekly.

 

[Guest]

Brian, did you separate the giant vals? I really cannot emphasize how much difference it makes (IME) when you clip the runners connecting the plants. The smaller plants take nutrients from the momma plants, and stress out the mommas. When left to their own devices (runner clipped), the smaller plants develop better roots and do a far better job of nutrient uptake on their own. You don't even have to move them, though I think that would help some too, just find the connecting runner and cut it.

With the algae, I agree with others who say get rid of the siesta period. I believe the plants do better at out-competing algae for nutrients when left on a continuous light cycle, rather than the siesta type schedule. Let them go the whole 8 hours uninterupted(I think you said 8 back at the beginning of this post, if I'm wrong, sorry). Personally, I'd go for 10 hours straight, but that's just what works for me, never even tried less than 10. I go for emulating summertime, 10 hours+ photoperiod. Anything less is spring or fall and less conducive to optimal plant growth, in my way of thinking.