Paintball CO2 On a 36 Gallon?

[ianeberle]

I have two tanks: a 10 gallon and a 36 gallon.

The 10 gallon currently has DIY yeast CO2 and it's very inconsistent and annoying to remix the stuff every 7-10 days. Plus it doesn't have enough pressure to push through commercial diffusers, so I'm stuck with my home-built diffuser that works fine, but looks ugly in the tank. Overall, this CO2 method works, but it's just a headache.

I was going to set up yeast CO2 on my larger tank which is 36 gallons, but I don't even want to bother. Full-blown pressurized setups are so expensive, so that leaves me with paintball setups.

I looked and I can set up paintball CO2 on both of my tanks for about $50 per setup. I will need a 24 oz (1.5 lb) tank as this is the biggest they come in. I was looking at this guide:

Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup with Tons of Photos

In the guide linked above, it says 2-3 bps will last me several months. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 2 bps the same no matter how big the tank is?

Another reason I want to go for the paintball method is that it's easy to refill the tanks. My brother plays paintball and it's $5 at the sporting goods store to refill a 24 oz. I know it's about the same cost to refill a 10 lb tank proportionately, but I don't even know if there are any brewing stores or anything in town that would fill one of those.

I know I can use this paintball method with my 10 gallon, but is the 36 gallon too large?

 

[jefferzbooboo]

I have two tanks: a 10 gallon and a 36 gallon.

The 10 gallon currently has DIY yeast CO2 and it's very inconsistent and annoying to remix the stuff every 7-10 days. Plus it doesn't have enough pressure to push through commercial diffusers, so I'm stuck with my home-built diffuser that works fine, but looks ugly in the tank. Overall, this CO2 method works, but it's just a headache.

I was going to set up yeast CO2 on my larger tank which is 36 gallons, but I don't even want to bother. Full-blown pressurized setups are so expensive, so that leaves me with paintball setups.

I looked and I can set up paintball CO2 on both of my tanks for about $50 per setup. I will need a 24 oz (1.5 lb) tank as this is the biggest they come in. I was looking at this guide:

Paintball Co2 Injection DIY Setup with Tons of Photos

In the guide linked above, it says 2-3 bps will last me several months. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 2 bps the same no matter how big the tank is?

Another reason I want to go for the paintball method is that it's easy to refill the tanks. My brother plays paintball and it's $5 at the sporting goods store to refill a 24 oz. I know it's about the same cost to refill a 10 lb tank proportionately, but I don't even know if there are any brewing stores or anything in town that would fill one of those.

I know I can use this paintball method with my 10 gallon, but is the 36 gallon too large?

Stay away from that design at all costs, they're dangerous. They don't use a regulator and if something clogs or gets kinked pressure builds up which can be up to 800psi and something has to give. The results usually aren't good. It is also very hard to adjust and to get a consistent supply.
I tried it when it first came on the scene and had a heck of a time getting it to adjust and had a needle valve rupture on me. I wouldn't recommend this setup to anyone, it's essentially a ticking time bomb, you're dealing with high pressure and it's not something to cheap out on.
If you go with a setup, make sure to use a regulator. There are plenty of options out there for paintball setups that are safe. Aquatek makes one for $90 with a solenoid. You can also buy an adapter to use a regular regulator on a paintball tank. If you want the Cadillac of regulators look at Green Leaf Aquariums, I have the Atomic version and love it. At 2bps on a 10g I get 5 months out of a tank.
I'd highly recommend getting one with a solenoid, without one you'll either need to turn it on and off every night or run an air pump at night so you don't gas your fish.
If you go the 10# bottle direction a welding supply store can fill them.

 

[ianeberle]

Can you make a list of supplies I will need? I've never done a pressurized system and I'd like to make sure I do it right.

When you say 5 months out of a tank, do you mean a paintball tank or a 10 lb standard tank?

Thanks for letting me know before I used this method!

 

[ianeberle]

Would I be better off just getting a standard system?

 

[jefferzbooboo]

I'd go with a prebuilt if you're new to the game. You'll have a warranty and customer service if you ever need it.
You'll need a regulator, Co2 proof tubing, 2 check valves, bubble counter, a diffuser, and drop checker. A prebuilt regulator will have the gauge and needle valve built in.

 

[ianeberle]

I am looking at this regulator on eBay:

CO2 Regulator Mini with Integrated Solenoid for Paintball Tank | eBay

Would that do the trick? Then all I need is the paintball tank, bubble counter, CO2 tubing, etc.

Should I get one of the atomic diffusers from Green Leaf Aquariums?

 

[jefferzbooboo]

The eBay one you posted would work, I wouldn't get to carried away with the price though, you can get a new one for $90 Amazon.com: AQUATEK CO2 Regulator Mini: Pet Supplies

The Aquatek one will do, the Green Leaf Aquarium one is built a little bit better. Don't be afraid to call the guy from Green Leaf, he's really nice and explained things very well.
For things like the bubble counter and drop checker you can get away with cheap ones from eBay.
You didn't mention if you dose anything at the moment because you'll need to dose micros and macros with a pressurized setup. What are running for lights?

 

[ianeberle]

10 gallon:
DIY yeast CO2
Flourish Excel daily
Flourish N, P, and K twice a week
Lights: two 14w 5000k compact fluorescent light bulbs

36 gallon:
Flourish Excel daily
Flourish N, K, and K twice a week
Lights: AquaticLife T5HO lamp (it's on Drs. Foster and Smith, about $120)

The plants in the 10 gallon are super green but the plants in the 36 aren't. Like I said before, the 10 gallon has DIY yeast CO2 and although it's working fine, it's so annoying to deal with, which is why I just want to do a paintball setup on both tanks.

 

[jefferzbooboo]

Have you considered going to dry fertilizers? I paid $28 and have enough micro and macros for almost 2 years.

If your aquariums are close to together you could run both of your aquariums off of 1 5lb bottle and 1 regulator.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I have the Aquatek mini regulator for paintball. I run two of them, one on my 6g and the other on my 26g bow front. The 20oz paintball running 24/7 on my bow front last about 3 months with 2 bps. I'm about to start dialing things in with the timer so that the tanks will last longer.

Anyway, I agree that GLA regulators are some of the nicest. However, for the value factor, can't really beat the Aquatek regulators. It's definitely a step up from those (dangerous) DIY paintball rigs that don't have a second stage pressure reducer... Anyway, I noticed that if you buy the Aquatek regulators from their eBay store, as opposed to their Amazon store, they throw in extras like free co2 tubing. In both Amazon and eBay with Aquatek you'll also get a bubble counter with an integrated check valve included. All you'll need to buy is a diffuser and you'll have a complete system. Although, I do also recommend buying a drop checker with 4dkh reference solution (unless you want to make 4dkh yourself: www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/how-to-make-a-reference-kh-solution-for-co2-measurement-88293.html).

Another option is to buy a full size regulator with a 5lbs co2 tank. You can buy a splitter and run both your aquariums off one system... http://www.amazon.com/AQUATEK-Split...353040&sr=8-10&keywords=Aquatek+co2+regulator

 

[ianeberle]

I'm going to look at the prices for a full size regulator and compare that to the price of this paintball regulator on eBay.

If the standard system comes out $20 more expensive in total, I'll just get a normal system...

 

[ianeberle]

I found this Craigslist posting in my area:


http://pensacola.craigslist.org/tls/3576333414.html

Do you think this would work? I hope he still has it, but it was listed almost a month ago so probably not.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

That's not meant for aquariums so i wouldn't know.

 

[aqua_chem]

The regulator is only one part of the setup, you would still need an entire postpody setup, including solenoid, needle valve, bubble counters, check valve, etc.

The paintball setups kind of have an unfair reputation in my opinion. The are unregulated, so it's important to know what that entails and plan appropriately. The issues of tank explosion, which I believe is exactly one case that has been repeated and somewhat dramatized, was the culmination of a catastrophic hardware failure, poor maintenance technique, and probably also a healthy helping of user error, and is useful in that it shows exactly what not to do. If you're running a setup without line pressure, like with an inline reactor, then it's actually pretty safe, as opposed to using a ceramic diffuser that, if left unmaintained or poorly maintained, can lead to excessive line pressure. Remember that you are indeed dealing with 800+ psi, so something usually gives before catastrophe, usually in the form of a line popping off somewhere.

 

[ianeberle]

Aqua Chem,


Are you saying I should go ahead with the paintball method? I was planning on using one of the Green Leaf Aquariums atomizers as my diffusion method. I have an EHEIM canister, but GLA claims their atomizers have 100% diffusion and I like the look of the CO2 bubbles in the tank, so that's why I want to use one of those versus an inline for my EHEIM.

I understand the advantage of a solenoid is that it can turn the gas off on a timer, but technically if I ran an air stone at night, I would never need to turn the gas off. I would rather buy a $20 regulator and run the gas at night than a $90 regulator with a solenoid so I could turn the gas off.

There's so many people doing the non-Solenoid cheap method with paintball and there's also people saying its not a good idea. If you think about it logically like Aqua Chem said, it would be more likely that a line would split open, the line would pop off the diffuser, etc before the tank blows up.

Please somebody give me a good verdict on what I should buy... I don't like wasting money if I don't have to.

 

[aqua_chem]

In my opinion, putting the money into a Milwaukee regulator ($90, comes with most of what you need) and a #5 tank ($50) is well worth the additional cost over the ASA valve setup ($50 for valve + $20 tank), even if you need to save longer for the setup. The paintball setups offer better throughput and control than DIY, but they're thoroughly beaten by a full regulator setup in terms of control, longevity, value, and cost effectiveness. The first three should be pretty intuitive, but consider the cost of running the two long term. With a ASA valve rig, you need to fill up the tank multiple times in the amount of time that one 5# tank would take you, which gets expensive because you usually pay for the fill up, not for the gas. In addition, you'll be running 24/7, meaning you'l be burning up 3x as much gas (assuming 8 hour run time), so you'll be filling your paintball tank 10x more often. $3-5 for a painball fill or $10-20 for a #5 refill, you do the math.

 

[ianeberle]

I called the local ACE Hardware store and they said they don't fill up CO2 tanks. They referred me to a place called Air Gas which was closed when I call.

I'd feel more comfortable doing a standard 5 pound tank if I knew places that could fill them. Are there any other choices? Obviously Air Gas would do it, but I needed to know if they FILL or EXCHANGE as there is a difference. I don't want to buy a brand new tank for them just to exchange it. However, if they operate on an exchange basis, I can just buy a used tank on eBay or something.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

I get my co2 tanks refilled at a paintball / airsoft store. I asked the manager out of curiosity if they refill 5# / 10# tanks and he said yes. So you might want to expand your search to include those places as well.

 

[ianeberle]

I just confirmed that Air Gas will do the 5 pound... Now I just have to stay on the lookout for anyone selling used tanks or regulators....

Going with the standard setup with a 5 pound tank.

 

[jefferzbooboo]

Aqua Chem,


Are you saying I should go ahead with the paintball method? I was planning on using one of the Green Leaf Aquariums atomizers as my diffusion method. I have an EHEIM canister, but GLA claims their atomizers have 100% diffusion and I like the look of the CO2 bubbles in the tank, so that's why I want to use one of those versus an inline for my EHEIM.

I understand the advantage of a solenoid is that it can turn the gas off on a timer, but technically if I ran an air stone at night, I would never need to turn the gas off. I would rather buy a $20 regulator and run the gas at night than a $90 regulator with a solenoid so I could turn the gas off.

There's so many people doing the non-Solenoid cheap method with paintball and there's also people saying its not a good idea. If you think about it logically like Aqua Chem said, it would be more likely that a line would split open, the line would pop off the diffuser, etc before the tank blows up.

Please somebody give me a good verdict on what I should buy... I don't like wasting money if I don't have to.

Just stay away from the cheap paintball set ups like originally posted, it's just not worth it. It you decide on a paintball set up go with a known brand like Green Leaf or similar, those are perfectly safe.