pH controller or timer???

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GreenGiant

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
33
Location
Denver, CO
Hello, all. I'm looking into a pressurized CO2 system for my new 75g tank, and I'm a bit confused about the best way to accurately control the dissolved CO2 concentration. My tap water has a KH of 4 and a pH of 7.6. The water in my established tank has a KH of 6 and pH of 7.8 (measurement taken just before water change). Using Chuck's calculator, I get 3 ppm CO2 for both tap and tank water.

Now lets say I want to go up to 20 ppm. The first issue I see with the pH controller method is this: what KH do I use to determine my target CO2 concentration? The KH in my existing tank rises between water changes (probably partially due to evaporation, and there may be some carbonates in the gravel, which dissolve slowly over time). If I assume a KH of 6, then my target pH is 7.0. If my true KH goes down to 5 (after water change), then if I control pH at 7.0, the actual dissolved CO2 will only be 15 ppm.

Next issue: I looked at the spec for the Milwaukee Instruments pH controller, and the accuracy is rated at plus or minus 0.2. So if I set the controller at 7.0, the actual pH could be anywhere from 6.8 to 7.2, giving a CO2 concentration somewhere between 11 and 29 ppm. Combine this with the KH variation, and the range gets wider.

With that much variability, would it be just as accurate (and cheaper) to put the CO2 on a simple timer, so that it goes on with my lights and then off again about an hour before lights out? It might be a little more work initially to get the right injection rate, but once the plants establish, I would think that a constant injection rate would give fairly consistent CO2 levels.

If anyone out there is an advocate for the pH method, how often do you calibrate or do maintenance on the probe? The ones we used in my chemistry classes were always finicky, and needed constant attention. Also, is there a reasonably priced unit with better than 0.1 accuracy?

This was a long post, so thanks for sticking it out and reading. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
 
With a KH of 4 I would recommend a PH controller, only because you are so close to unstable KH (Mine is the same)

I have the Milwaukee SMS122 Controller, and Would beg to differ, it's accuracy is to the tenths. It is calibratable so you can calibrate it, so I guess you can be off by almost 1 point. it also has a slope adjustment. I used vinegar to adjust it (put probe into PH 7 solution and calibrated, put it in white vinegar, adjusted the slope (small hole on the back) until it read 2.8, put it back into the PH 7, re calibrated, then put it back into the vinegar and it read 2.8.. doing it this way should get you some really great accuracy. It's been doing very well for me.

The down side, it turns on .2 higher then your set point. so say 6.6 is your set point, at 6.8 it will turn on, then turn back off at 6.6... kind of annoying but livable..

I haven't had mine longer then a month, but every so often I dip the probe in PH 7 to check it's accuracy and it has yet to fail to get it exactly right. Just take your time setting it up and check it with random known PH's (Vinegar is 2.8, other PH solutions are available)..

Also consider getting a really good reactor. it helps a lot.

Oh, if my CO2 runs for more then 20 Mins my PH will be at 6.4 from 6.8 :O
 
I got the spec from the Milwaukee website:
http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/

SMS122
Specifications:
Range 0.0 - 14.0 pH
Resolution 0.1 pH
Accuracy ± 0.2 pH
Calibration Manual 2 points
Set point range 5.5 - 9.5 pH
Alarm Active when reading is higher than
set point
Dosing contact 1 power plug for CO2 dosing
Power supply 12 VDC adapter
Electrode MA911B/2
Dimensions 80 x 145 x 35 mm

So, the resolution is 0.1 units. Accuracy is 0.2 units. But, as you said, if you calibrate it you can eliminate most of the accuracy error. Good point.

Do your fish seem stressed from the 0.2 pH difference between on/off? I would think they would be ok with the pH difference, but the CO2 would swing up/down by about 7 ppm (given KH = 6, set point of 20 ppm CO2)
 
It sounds bad, but a CO2 adjustment rate of 30-60 ppm has never caused me any sort of issues. I know the 25-35 ppm range is the sweet spot, but, in practice, is very hard to hit give your ranges. No worries.
 
Call me old-school, but if the Riccia bubbles at noon on the dot, I think we're good. Steve Hampton may have a better argument though - and I will defer to his judgement. Tough call man.
 
I perfer a timer. Controllers are just to costly to justify one IMO. A timer for your regulator/solenoid has worked for me and many others. I guess if you have the money, go for it. Be prepared to hear it switch on/off often theough. Also the accuracy of the monitor is +-.2 It may not kick on when you want or need it too for that reason. May kick off to soon also.
 
Do your fish seem stressed from the 0.2 pH difference between on/off? I would think they would be ok with the pH difference, but the CO2 would swing up/down by about 7 ppm (given KH = 6, set point of 20 ppm CO2)

absolutely not. When I first installed the tank I dropped the PH from 7.5 to 6.9 as quick as it could (that part dropped really fast too) and the fish didn't seem to care. it seems the Co2 induced Ph change doesn't affect the fish the same way as using vinegar or RO wate to drp the PH.

If you can get the bubble rate constant, then a timer works. but I imagine this takes a bit to set up. I also like not having to test the PH.
 
Hmmmm... no real consensus. I guess both methods work, athough it seems the pH controller has the potential to be more accurate (and expensive)....

Thanks for the advice, I'll have to think this one over
 
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