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Old 09-28-2006, 12:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Enigma
JRagg,

What do you mean by respiration period? As in the dark cycle? If so that is always occurring, even during lighted periods. The plants just cannot usually resupply all of their enzymes/proteins/channel their nutrients if constantly lit and that is when algae begins to take over since the nitrogen (ammonia) is not being utilized.
I misspoke again. I meant a break from the photosynthetic period. I wasn't sure if 4 hours was enough. As Glitch said it seems to be working, but I remember reading in one of my books that plants can only handle so many hours of light each day and that more than that could "wear out" (for lack of a better term) the plant. I'll take a look tonight and see if I can find what I'm talking about.
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Old 09-28-2006, 02:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRagg
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Enigma
JRagg,

What do you mean by respiration period? As in the dark cycle? If so that is always occurring, even during lighted periods. The plants just cannot usually resupply all of their enzymes/proteins/channel their nutrients if constantly lit and that is when algae begins to take over since the nitrogen (ammonia) is not being utilized.
I misspoke again. I meant a break from the photosynthetic period. I wasn't sure if 4 hours was enough. As Glitch said it seems to be working, but I remember reading in one of my books that plants can only handle so many hours of light each day and that more than that could "wear out" (for lack of a better term) the plant. I'll take a look tonight and see if I can find what I'm talking about.
By "wear out" you are referring to exactly what I posted in the one you quoted. They deplete enzymes required for proper functioning and channeling proteins throughout the plant. That's why I use a siesta period during the day actually. It gives time for nutrients which may have been temporarily depleted in a local area to be replenished (such as a low flow zone that even though there are the proper amount of each nutrient, say near a hygro leaf with low flow, it will deplete and can lead to algae in that area), and also allows for a buildup of enzymes (and tissue repair) if they have been depleted.

And GlitcH, none that I can see other than the common pond snails and the MTS. I have seen my barbs inspect the MTS and large pond snails before with a quick nibble, but have never seen them eat eggs before. On the same token I have also not ever seen egg casings. As far as I know, most pond snails lay their eggs above water level correct? I don't check often, but have never to date seen a clutch of eggs. So if they are laying them in the water somewhere, it is possible they are being eaten. Hmm....I'll be having a free QT 10gallon tank in the next week as my barb is finally fully healed from fin nipping. I might try to grab a bunch of pond snails (they are around but not in large numbers), and start up a snail farm for a bit (no light on in the tank probably, just some algae wafers and fish food. Sound like a plan?
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Old 09-28-2006, 02:40 PM   #23
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First let me say that I've been told that what I have are pond snails. I don't know for sure if they are but my snails lay there eggs everywhere below the water line.
And I've also been told that MTS are livebearers. So there would be no eggs to see or be eatin.
My MTS don't seem to reproduce to quickly.......certainly not as quickly as the pond snails.
But then it's harder to tell with them cuz there not as visible.
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Old 09-28-2006, 03:37 PM   #24
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A bit bigger than my work tank, but that's what I'm aiming for!

I just moved my tank today, and new people are spotting it. I've had treats that I may find a fish in it soon.
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Old 09-28-2006, 03:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch
First let me say that I've been told that what I have are pond snails.
Those are indeed pond snails in your pic.
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Old 09-28-2006, 04:15 PM   #26
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Very nice! The one piece of driftwood by the rock looks like a snake ready to strike!
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Old 09-28-2006, 04:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitcH
First let me say that I've been told that what I have are pond snails. I don't know for sure if they are but my snails lay there eggs everywhere below the water line.
And I've also been told that MTS are livebearers. So there would be no eggs to see or be eatin.
My MTS don't seem to reproduce to quickly.......certainly not as quickly as the pond snails.
But then it's harder to tell with them cuz there not as visible.
You are correct, MTS are livebearers which is really nice if you want to avoid other snail types since you can be sure any egg sacs are not from the MTS.

If they are laying them below the water line, then my barbs must be eating them since I have never seen one. Can you take a pic of what your egg sacs look like? I'm specifically interested in the size of them. Pea size? or Dime size? or Quarter size? Thanks.
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Old 09-28-2006, 06:45 PM   #28
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Thx JC for that positive ID

Here is a pic of the egg sack....it's alittle smaller than a dime.

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Old 09-28-2006, 07:03 PM   #29
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Yuck, looks like a slug walked over the glass! Thanks for the pic. I can say for sure I have never seen that before in my tank.

So my predicament then is are my fish eating snail eggs only, or also young hatched snails. If snail eggs only I could create a hoarde of them in my QT tank and then seed them into my main tank for algae duty. If both, then I might not be able to get this army going.

GlitcH,

Can you guesstimate on the algae removal % between the shrimp and the snails? By that I mean do you see your snails cleanup everything, or just those plants closer to the ground (HC in particular)? Does the shrimp take care of the plants higher up in the tank? I'm wondering if your snails while being a monster presence in your tank is only responsible for a small amount of the algae removal and your shrimp (which my barbs would love to take a bite out of) doing the majority of the cleanup duty.
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:51 PM   #30
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The shrimp are just as busy eating algae as the snails are but I have far more snails than shrimp at this point. So the snail population is doing most of the cleaning at this point.

As for where the clean.....both clean at all levels of the tank but I see more snails higher up more often than I see shrimp.

And I don't have HC .......just glosso........and they both clean that just as well as the other plants.

If I had to compare 1 shrimp to 1 snail of equal size though.......I'd have to guess that the snails would do a better job. And that is based soley on the "snail trails" that I sometimes see in areas of algae. The trails indicate to me that the snails remove even very short patches of algae where as shrimp only grab at small clumps with their claws and don't get the "roots" if you will.

Slap me if I'm rambling.
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Old 09-29-2006, 04:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlitcH
The shrimp are just as busy eating algae as the snails are but I have far more snails than shrimp at this point. So the snail population is doing most of the cleaning at this point.

As for where the clean.....both clean at all levels of the tank but I see more snails higher up more often than I see shrimp.

And I don't have HC .......just glosso........and they both clean that just as well as the other plants.

If I had to compare 1 shrimp to 1 snail of equal size though.......I'd have to guess that the snails would do a better job. And that is based soley on the "snail trails" that I sometimes see in areas of algae. The trails indicate to me that the snails remove even very short patches of algae where as shrimp only grab at small clumps with their claws and don't get the "roots" if you will.

Slap me if I'm rambling.
Nope, quite helpful. This weekend I'll move my barb back to the main tank and start my snail farm. I figure I can feed these guys on algae wafers with no tank lights on (the hood on the 10 gallon QT tank is only a 17watt meant for a 20gallon high tank, so I would doubt it could grow any algae, unless I left it on 24/7.

It's unfortunate my anubias is so well anchored down now on the substrate/terra cotta pots as I could see using the snail tank as a sort of QT for plants! Take the infected plant out of the main tank, place it in the snail farm QT tank, let them do their thing, and then back to the main tank like new...
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:21 PM   #32
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WOW I just was looking at the old pics of the tank and boy did it get bushy in there since I took those.
Here's the before and after:




Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Enigma
It's unfortunate my anubias is so well anchored down now on the substrate/terra cotta pots as I could see using the snail tank as a sort of QT for plants! Take the infected plant out of the main tank, place it in the snail farm QT tank, let them do their thing, and then back to the main tank like new...
I've actually borrowed your idea and did just that with some anubia.....the shrimp and snails cleaned it up nice in about a day but I left it in for just under a week to be sure.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:27 PM   #33
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Looks like a really nice shrimp heaven in there. I be there's a ton of shrimp hiding in all those plants.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:45 PM   #34
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Thx Purrbox
I tried to get some close ups but the snails on the glass mess with my camerafocus.
I just wasn't in the mood to shoot around them.
But ya there is a ton of baby shrimp in there.
I am guessing that in a few months I'll be ready to start selling them.

I'm also thinking about starting up a tank to breed Crystal Reds.
Anyone have any luck with them? I hear they arn't to much different from RCS.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:48 PM   #35
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WOOOOOOW. thats one of the prettiest tanks i've ever seen. Congratulations!
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:49 PM   #36
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Thats incredible. This time I mean it. I quit. I am going back to neon plastic plants and pirate ships.
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:53 PM   #37
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Crystals are just supposed to be more picky about water parms and have much lower birth rates. Other than that, they shouldn't be too much different to take care of.
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:38 PM   #38
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That is one beautiful tank. Tons of lush growth, still no ferts?
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:16 AM   #39
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GlitcH,

Glad to hear the "plant quarantine" worked for you. I've actually done that in my 10gallon QT tank now on a trial basis. I have been taking a large portion of my stargrass and hygro clippings and placed them in the QT tank. I now have a floating paradise for the snails at the surface and they seemed to have eaten some of the thread algae on the leaves. I'm still definately in the breeding stage, but its going well.

The barb in the QT tank is still there as I might just keep him in there for quite a while. It's nice to see the female barb that was previously being nipped to death now carving out a territory for herself in the main tank. Her fin that was badly damaged has also grown back quite well.

I haven't seen this barb in the QT tank eat any of the snail eggs (which I'm finally seeing and I got some pictures of). I'm also starting to see some baby MTS which is a good sign. Every time I clean my filter inserts now I spend about 10-20minutes meticulously going through the crud to find snails and drop them in the QT tank. I bet I found 30-40 at least yesterday among the 2 tanks. Normally those would have just been flushed without even looking for them, so this is something to look out for if your interested in keeping snails!

If you have a manual focus on your digital camera you can choose what the picture will be taken of. I couldn't get my nice digi cam to focus on any midground plants/fish because it kept getting thrown off by the foreground, glass, current, etc.

Finally I dug out the instruction booklet and got some great shots using the manual focus and a tripod. I don't have any of the pictures available right now, they are still on the camera. If I remember I'll post a shot or two after work.

Oh, and I've been dosing regularly with calcium chloride to make sure the shells stay healthy. I hate using salt with snails, but its the most readily available chemical I have and dissolves very quickly. My water has a GH of 10, but I tend to see possible Ca/Mg deficiencies in my main tank. My local water report does not coincide with the water coming out of my tap (so I don't know the proportion of Ca/Mg or if something else in the water is falsely increasing the measurement), and I'm just not willing to spend $100 to get a personalized water report.

Thanks again for this crazy idea of snail farming!
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Old 10-23-2006, 01:32 PM   #40
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That is one beautiful tank. Tons of lush growth, still no ferts?
Nope........not a drop Glenc. I did however, cut back on the lighting.....just 18 hours a day now.
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