Planted Tank help with HC

[Aquazan]

I have a 10 gallon 20" long aquarium that is 8-10" from surface to substrate, and I am planning to either buy the Finnex Ray 2 or wait for the Finnex Planted+ LED to come out. I really want to be able to grow a HC carpet in this tank, but I dont know which one to wait for. Does anyone know the details on the Planted+ Finnex LED?

Do I need to dose all the ferts in order to grow the HC? Haha I still need to learn how to dose ferts... Maybe I will try the dry ferts from Green leaf. Will seachem flourish do the job?

Also, what have you heard/what do you think about the fluval nano Co2 systems? I might get that or the Aquateck regulator + Paintball tank

My tank has ADA Aquasoil + Powersand, is that a good substrate for HC?

 

[bshenanagins]

I have a 10 gallon 20" long aquarium that is 8-10" from surface to substrate, and I am planning to either buy the Finnex Ray 2 or wait for the Finnex Planted+ LED to come out. I really want to be able to grow a HC carpet in this tank, but I dont know which one to wait for. Does anyone know the details on the Planted+ Finnex LED?

Do I need to dose all the ferts in order to grow the HC? Haha I still need to learn how to dose ferts... Maybe I will try the dry ferts from Green leaf. Will seachem flourish do the job?

Also, what have you heard/what do you think about the fluval nano Co2 systems? I might get that or the Aquateck regulator + Paintball tank

My tank has ADA Aquasoil + Powersand, is that a good substrate for HC?

Are there going to be fish in this tank? Especially bottom dwellers? Because I'd highly vote against it. HC is the biggest pain of all carpeting plants. Takes a while for it to establish a good root system in which makes it vulnerable to insesant uprooting. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful, but your best course of action would be to start the carpet in emersed form. What I mean is only filling the tank enough to submerge the substrate and keep the HC wet. Others have done this with great success and faster carpeting and I'm sure they will chime in.

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

The Ray 2 at that distance will probably get you about 80+ PAR (high light) at that distance, more than enough to grow HC. With that much PAR, you'll have to make sure co2 levels are adequate and you don't over run your photoperiod, otherwise algae will ensue.

The Fugeray Planted+ has a reduction in PAR, but has those red diodes. I think colors will be less washed out, especially if you're thinking if keeping non-green plants. Fish that are colorful should look better as well. And you'll have moonlight LEDs if that matters to you. Due to a little less PAR, this will allow you to run the light longer each day unless you plan to suspend the Ray 2, which would null this particular comparison. Just not sure what sizes Finnex decided to produce. It's scheduled to release this November and will be priced somewhere between the current Fugeray and Ray 2 models.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=338114

Definitely go with the Aquatek mini paintball regulator setup over the fluval mini cartridge system. The fluval uses proprietary co2 cartridges that will end up being more costly in the long run. Plus there's no solenoid valve on the fluval. There's no comparison.

Aqua Soil + power sand is the best you can get in terms of substrate. You'll be solid in this department.

You can start with the Seachem liquid ferts but I encourage you to take the plunge with dry ferts. You'll save so much more money this way. Plus, it's well rounded and comprehensive. I started my 6g with the Ray 2 + pressurized co2 with flourish comp...it started out great but I slowly started getting yellow/brown spots in my HC carpet. I think the culprit was low nitrogen. When I switched to pps-pro dosing, my HC took off in a nice uniform green. Then again, however, I wasn't using a really nice substrate as Aqua Soil, so your experience might be totally different.

 

[Aquazan]

The Ray 2 at that distance will probably get you about 80+ PAR (high light) at that distance, more than enough to grow HC. With that much PAR, you'll have to make sure co2 levels are adequate and you don't over run your photoperiod, otherwise algae will ensue.

The Fugeray Planted+ has a reduction in PAR, but has those red diodes. I think colors will be less washed out, especially if you're thinking if keeping non-green plants. Fish that are colorful should look better as well. And you'll have moonlight LEDs if that matters to you. Due to a little less PAR, this will allow you to run the light longer each day unless you plan to suspend the Ray 2, which would null this particular comparison. Just not sure what sizes Finnex decided to produce. It's scheduled to release this November and will be priced somewhere between the current Fugeray and Ray 2 models.
ULTIMATE PLANT LED: Finnex FugeRAY Planted+ LED ...coming soon

Definitely go with the Aquatek mini paintball regulator setup over the fluval mini cartridge system. The fluval uses proprietary co2 cartridges that will end up being more costly in the long run. Plus there's no solenoid valve on the fluval. There's no comparison.

Aqua Soil + power sand is the best you can get in terms of substrate. You'll be solid in this department.

You can start with the Seachem liquid ferts but I encourage you to take the plunge with dry ferts. You'll save so much more money this way. Plus, it's well rounded and comprehensive. I started my 6g with the Ray 2 + pressurized co2 with flourish comp...it started out great but I slowly started getting yellow/brown spots in my HC carpet. I think the culprit was low nitrogen. When I switched to pps-pro dosing, my HC took off in a nice uniform green. Then again, however, I wasn't using a really nice substrate as Aqua Soil, so your experience might be totally different.

Haha first of all, Thanks for answering with so much info and taking the time to write all that!

So just to be clear, both the FugeRay and the Finnex Ray 2 can grow HC? Is it just that the FugeRay Planted+ allows more flexibility for photoperiods/stability/etc.? What advantages does the Ray 2 have over the planted+ and vice versa?

I will definetely be buying the Aquatek Co2 Regulator then. And I am glad that I have good substrate too. I will probably just start out with Flourish, and then try Dry ferts later on Is it bad to have just Co2 without strong lighting?

P.S. This will be a shrimp tank for Crystal Red Shrimp (maybe an otto or 2)

Thanks again!

 

[Aquazan]

Are there going to be fish in this tank? Especially bottom dwellers? Because I'd highly vote against it. HC is the biggest pain of all carpeting plants. Takes a while for it to establish a good root system in which makes it vulnerable to insesant uprooting. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful, but your best course of action would be to start the carpet in emersed form. What I mean is only filling the tank enough to submerge the substrate and keep the HC wet. Others have done this with great success and faster carpeting and I'm sure they will chime in.

What advantages does emersed growth have/why is it better? If I blast it with high lights, will it grow algae? Because I can't inject Co2 emersed

It's going to be a CR shrimp tank

 

[bshenanagins]

What advantages does emersed growth have/why is it better? If I blast it with high lights, will it grow algae? Because I can't inject Co2 emersed

It's going to be a CR shrimp tank

Emersed growth results in quicker carpeting and stronger roots. Typically, those who have done it will cover the tank with syran wrap to keep it moist and wet in the tank and obviously there would be no need for the co2 as it would be provided naturally. Ferts would be sprayed onto the plant and you could certainly put in some root tabs. And as already mentioned it loves high light but you want to pretty densely fill it to avoid any algae competition.

 

[Aquazan]

Emersed growth results in quicker carpeting and stronger roots. Typically, those who have done it will cover the tank with syran wrap to keep it moist and wet in the tank and obviously there would be no need for the co2 as it would be provided naturally. Ferts would be sprayed onto the plant and you could certainly put in some root tabs. And as already mentioned it loves high light but you want to pretty densely fill it to avoid any algae competition.

So how do I carry this out? (My tank is filled and cycling right now) So I empty the tank down to the substrate level and then plant the HC and cover it with Plastic wrap and then wait? Are ferts necessary?

What should I fill in densely to avoid algae? The HC? Do I have to buy enough to cover the entire foreground then??

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Well if the ADA AS is new, it is pretty packed with nutrients right out of the bag and will be enough to start your HC carpet growth via the DSM (dry start method) or submerged.

I think both the Ray 2 and FugeRay planted+ will grow HC. Go to the link and look at the PAR data posted by Lowe. HC needs a minimum of 30 µmol PAR to grow... the more higher the PAR, the more compact creeping growth you should get.
Now that you've indicated you want to keep CRS, this becomes a little tricky in high tech setups. Lots of CO2 and shrimp survivability don't usually coincide. You should research that more as I'm still learning to balance high tech + shrimp. Serious shrimp keepers keep CRS and other sensitive caridina sp. in low tech conditions w/ no co2.

 

[Aquazan]

Well if the ADA AS is new, it is pretty packed with nutrients right out of the bag and will be enough to start your HC carpet growth via the DSM (dry start method) or submerged.

I think both the Ray 2 and FugeRay planted+ will grow HC. Go to the link and look at the PAR data posted by Lowe. HC needs a minimum of 30 µmol PAR to grow... the more higher the PAR, the more compact creeping growth you should get.
Now that you've indicated you want to keep CRS, this becomes a little tricky in high tech setups. Lots of CO2 and shrimp survivability don't usually coincide. You should research that more as I'm still learning to balance high tech + shrimp. Serious shrimp keepers keep CRS and other sensitive caridina sp. in low tech conditions w/ no co2.

Thanks for telling me that haha, I will look for more info on that.

When something says that a lighting system has X PAR (like 50 PAR) does it usually mean it is talking in the µmol units?

What will happen with Co2 + Shrimps?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Micromoles is the unit of measurement when you see a number attached to PAR.

CO2 in higher concentration will kill shrimp, well actually all livestock...it's just shrimp are more susceptible... especially make it less likely the offspring will survive. Other factors are important too to shrimp, such as TDS, KH/GH, ph, etc. Looks like you have some googling to do

 

[Aquazan]

Micromoles is the unit of measurement when you see a number attached to PAR.

CO2 in higher concentration will kill shrimp, well actually all livestock...it's just shrimp are more susceptible... especially make it less likely the offspring will survive. Other factors are important too to shrimp, such as TDS, KH/GH, ph, etc. Looks like you have some googling to do

Haha I know about all of that Ill be using RO/DI water with Equilibrium plus the seachem buffers

I will probably just use the Co2 on my 29 gallon then... is there anyway to have high lighting like the finnex without Co2 and still prevent algae? What if I used the emersed growth technique and grew a carpet first?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

To have high light without co2, your only alternate option would be excel or glut. I'm not sure how CRS react to it.. I'd research that a bit. I'm trying to get our high tech ADA 60-F balanced by trying to find the "sweet spot" of the minimal amount of co2 injection I can get by on to keep my plants happy while minimizing shrimp loss. Have you researched around a bit? You might find your answers here in the inverts sub forum or on TPT.. I wish I can give more definitive answers but I'm sorta in a learning phase myself with shrimp.

 

[Aquazan]

To have high light without co2, your only alternate option would be excel or glut. I'm not sure how CRS react to it.. I'd research that a bit. I'm trying to get our high tech ADA 60-F balanced by trying to find the "sweet spot" of the minimal amount of co2 injection I can get by on to keep my plants happy while minimizing shrimp loss. Have you researched around a bit? You might find your answers here in the inverts sub forum or on TPT.. I wish I can give more definitive answers but I'm sorta in a learning phase myself with shrimp.

Apparently Excel kills shrimp ...yikes

Im just confused on how to get a beautiful HC carpet tank along with shrimp without Co2 :/ Ive seen people acheive it, but Idk how.

I might just move this project to my 29 gallon tank.


One question, my 75 gallon tank has around 200 watts of Light and no Co2. I have Vallisneria all over the tank and a photoperiod of 8 hours. Algae is always growing in the tank, and for a long time I didn't know why. Is it because of the lack of Co2? If I install the aquatek system, will it go away, or just grow faster?

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

Yeah lack of co2. For the 75g, you'll zip through tiny paintball tanks in no time. You should get a full size regulator with a 5 to 10# cylinder. Speaking of which, are your other tanks near by the 75g? If so, you can get a splitter (aka: manifold) to run multiple co2 lines from a single regulator and co2 tank.

 

[Aquazan]

Yeah lack of co2. For the 75g, you'll zip through tiny paintball tanks in no time. You should get a full size regulator with a 5 to 10# cylinder. Speaking of which, are your other tanks near by the 75g? If so, you can get a splitter (aka: manifold) to run multiple co2 lines from a single regulator and co2 tank.

Where can I buy the full size tanks for my 75 gallon aquarium? Do you mean just a regulator that can fit on a full size tank when you say full size regulator?

They are on different floors Oh well haha

Right now the 75 gallon is overrun by vallisneria (like vallisneria has taken over the tank, its everywhere), I will uproot most of it and sell it so that I can plant some HC and grow other plants

 

[Brian_Nano12g]

In terms of Aquatek, there's a standard sized regulator that fits large cylinders... then there's a mini version for paintball. You can find them on Amazon and ebay.

 

[jester56]

The old HC... You definitely have a balancing act to follow. I got so frustrated with it, I entwined it in a piece of Java Fern at the top of a piece of driftwood. Now, it's growing like nuts. I have a 50 G acrylic. Have two 36" Finnex Ray 2's, and an Aquatek standard CO2 reg. I have a standard 5lb Luxfor CO2 tank.

1) the Rays are great. They throw serious light. So much that you'll be experimenting with your photoperiod to keep it all in balance. Lots of patience and a good electric timer for your lamps will help.


2) definitely go with the full size CO2 setup. The regulator is solid and dependable. Helps avoid that over saturation nightmare. The reg runs under $100. the tank runs around $65-70. If you have Amazon Prime, you can get it all shipped - two day - free... The local paintball shop fills my 5lb for $15.


Good luck!

 

[aqua_chem]

Wow, you guys really hate HC.

Overestimating light need can be a fatal flaw. HC can be grown in moderate light and healthy CO2. With anything more than that, you sacrifice consistency/reliability for growth, which is a risky trade off. I'm growing HC right now with 2xT5HO raised 27" off substrate, though to be fair, my fixture is quite a bit better than what most people use. Still, my PAR is probably less than a Ray in a 10g.

With AS, you should definitely consider DSM. HC does really well in dry start, moreso than some other foregrounds.

As far as shrimp vs CO2, less light = less CO2, which helps the cause.

 

[jetajockey]

You could always do DIY co2. The other way to get a nice hc carpet is to buy it in carpet form :]

 

[jester56]

Wow, you guys really hate HC.

Overestimating light need can be a fatal flaw. HC can be grown in moderate light and healthy CO2. With anything more than that, you sacrifice consistency/reliability for growth, which is a risky trade off. I'm growing HC right now with 2xT5HO raised 27" off substrate, though to be fair, my fixture is quite a bit better than what most people use. Still, my PAR is probably less than a Ray in a 10g.

As far as shrimp vs CO2, less light = less CO2, which helps the cause.

I'm actually in full agreement. I tried growing it on the substrate, with it just staying the same size. On a lark, I moved it up to just below the surface on a Java Fern attached to a piece of bog wood. Now, it's a big, thick ball of HC. I have 2 36" Ray 2's that I use. One is on a timer that runs it for 10 hours, split photoperiods. The other is manually controlled and I turn it on for maintenance or display. My biggest problem with it is BBA. Thank goodness for H2O4...