Plants and a new established tank.

[7Enigma]

Hmm. While were on this off-topic topic, I have a question that I have not been able to find the answer too (OP you might know the answer to this due to your plant usage). At what level of ammonia is it NOT beneficial to add plants to your cycling tank (ie kill the plants).

I am attempting a fishless cycle by dosing ammonia chloride, and my tank is currently at between 4-7ppm. Even though I seeded with a lot of gravel from a well established tank, I'm reading no nitrIte present, and my ammonia level is really not going down. My tap water nitrAtes are between 10 and 20ppm, so I can't use the nitrAtes as a good level of whether my cycle is even started. Is this level too high for the addition of plants (ie should I reduce the amount of ammonia in the water, and then add plants), or is this a safe enough level to not harm them?

 

[Jchillin]

I split your question into it's own thread 7Enigma.

 

[Jchillin]

I see your problem...your tap will replenish nitrate and you will probably never get a nitrite reading as a result. With this condition, you will not see a "cycle" in the traditional sense (ammonia spike, nitrite spike, nitrate spike).

Here's a thought, since you used established media and it's been running awhile, you may as well add a good amount of plants and let them be a part of your overall filtration system.

In answer to your original question, I have no scientific data available but since your ammonia level is via introduction and not natural, I would think that levels above 2.5 to 3 would have the same affect on plants as it would our fish.

Any other thoughts on this?

 

[rich311k]

As far as I know. Ammonia will not hurt the plants. The will take it out ofr the water column and use it. I would get some fast growers. Hornwort and anacharis to start, they are nitrogen machines.

 

[azn_fishy55]

But at a pH level below 7 won't ammonia be converted in ammonium which is less toxic and when you have a a pH higher than 7 it is more toxic?

 

[7Enigma]

Wait!? I thought a low pH was cause for concern with ammonia while the higher pH made it less toxic?

 

[travis simonson]

Ammonia/ammonium in most cases, unless dangerously high, only holds a toxicity factor for fauna, not flora. Plants will uptake NH4+/NH3 as a nutrient, although not as readily as will algae. This is why many people encounter green water problems with cycling tanks. Nitrate (NO3) is much more readily available to plants than ammonia/ammonium.

 

[7Enigma]

Travis,

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. Any comment on which is more toxic (to fish), ammonia at low pH or ammonia at high pH? I was under the impression it was more dangerous at low pH, but we seem to disagree here. (azn_fishy55)

 

[Lonewolfblue]

http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html

 

[7Enigma]

Thanks, lonewolfblue. I had it backwards, and azn_fishy55 you were right.

 

[Purrbox]

As far as your fishless cycle, I would go ahead and do a water change to get the level of ammonia down. 7ppm may be high enough that you've managed to stall out your cycle, causing it to take longer. I would recommed trying to dose to somewhere between 3ppm and 5ppm instead.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I agree, 7ppm is a bit high.

 

[7Enigma]

Well, one of the fishless methods I read that I chose to use was to originally dose at 5ppm, then when that gets close to zero, dose at 2.5ppm. It was from a well referenced site, and it seemed reasonable. So I dosed the tank at ~5ppm, and when testing my master test kit shows up between the 4ppm and 8ppm colors (but closer to the 4). So I would assume it was dosed properly.

It's all awash now anyway, just last night I decided to test once more for nitrIte. Up til now, its always been 0.00 (light blue), but last night I finally got a positive result, and it was between 0.25 and 0.55, which is amazing since less than 24hours before there was no noticeable change from 0.00. When I get home from work I'll be checking again, but it seems as if the cycle was stalled due to high ammonia originally, some of that bacteria plugged on through and have now established themselves well. And if that high ammonia was stalling the cycle, since I'm not adding anymore, the rate of ammonia to nitrIte conversion should INCREASE, speeding up the cycle!

 

[Purrbox]

Sounds like a good plan. Good luck with the rest of your cycle.