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Old 09-18-2006, 06:59 PM   #1
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plants starting to turn yellow and lose red color

Well I got these plants Friday and I cant seem to figure out why they are turning yellowis and losing its red color. Here are some pictures:





Also the sunset hyrgo's leaves look like they are curling. Here is my dosing schedule (still trying to work out the macro schedule)
Today:20ml flourish postassium
10 ml flourish phosphourus (uped the dose from 5ml on saturday because a tiny spot algea was on the glass)
Nitrates:20ppm (dose potassium nitrate when needed, 1/8 teaspoon)

Micro scheudle: 1 teaspoon CSM+b every other day

CO2: PH Tap: 7.0 PH tank 6.0, KH 3 2-2liter diy co2 directly into intake of cannister

Lighting: 80 watt flouro's (4 foot fixture, overhang 5 inches each side, directly on top of tank)
2 20 watt CF directly on tank (not sure actual amount, said it replaced 75 watt bulbs but used 20 watts)
turn on:9 am turn off 9pm
Moonlights from 830-11:30PM

So what am I doing wrong?
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:17 PM   #2
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What size is the tank? I dose 1/8th teaspoon every other day and that is for a 10 gallon tank.

The plants in front do not look like that is submerged growth but emersed. If it is, expect all the leaves to die off and be replaced with submerged form as well a spossibly the stems. As for the Sunset curling I don't remember but someone knows and hopefully will pop in sooner or later if I don't find it first.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:27 PM   #3
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this is for a 36gallon, what do you dose every other day? If it is emersed growth will it still grow submursed?
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:38 PM   #4
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When dosing, I dose 3x weekly. And yes, if it's grown emersed, it will grow submersed. You may lose leaves, and maybe the stem, but you'll get new submersed growth.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:41 PM   #5
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alright so that mught explain why its turning yellow then? Also I have a small small case of blue green algea which suggest phospate overdose, but I still have minimal spot algea suggesting up my dosge of phosphates? Also lone how does my dosing regime look? I dose that 3x weekly also. All my other plants are doing well, just seems that little bit is starting to turn south. About the sunset hygro curling? That was grown in peytons tank so its always been submursed, what would you suggest?
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:59 PM   #6
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BGA is caused by low or no nitrates, which means all you have is phosphates. It's not caused by high phosphates.

As for the dosing, maybe someone can help there. I have a tough time with figuring out Flourish dosing. I just use Greg's products and dose dry in some tanks and solutions in the others.

Basically, I dose 15ppm nitrates, 1.5ppm phosphates, and 10ppm potassium, 3 times a week.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:35 PM   #7
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well my nitrates arnt the problem, as you know I dont have much fish load (2 fish that only eat once every three days, the cichlid eats often but veggies) So I have to dose my nitrate dry. Myabe i let it bottem out for a few days as I didnt measure for awhile cause ive never had to dose it before. Ive got the postassium nitrate from Gregwatson so I keep it around 20ppms now.
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:06 AM   #8
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I dose 10ppm KNO3 (1/8tsp dry), .88ppm KH2PO4, 15ppm K2SO4 (1/4 tsp dry), 1/2 tsp MgSO4 dry and will be adding 1 tsp Calcium Citrate dry every other day and my nitrates still have a tendency to be a little low with a descent bioload. I dose CSM+B, the flourish equivelant to .2-.3 ppm on the other days. This is in a 10 gallon tank

Like wolf said, BGA is caused from a lack of NO3, not overdosing PO4, I got some before I started to basically overdose preventing anything from ever bottoming out or at least that is the idea.
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:10 AM   #9
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im just scared to overdose my nitrates, I did that one time by accident and it was off the charts, it took 4 90% water changes to bring it back to safe levels. I dosed 1/8th tsp today and tested and it was at 20ppms, I will keep testing that everyday to see when it becomes lower. Does anyone know why my sunset hygro leaves are starting to look like that?
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:39 AM   #10
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Iron might be the culprit for your Sunset. Could be low NO3, and remember to shake the living daylights out of bottle 2 before testing or your reading will be off. I know from experience.

Also, the absolute best you have is 2.7 watts per gallon and with the restrike from the screw ins it is likely much lower. It could be a problem with lighting unless you wanted a lower light tank in which case your dosing is fine. I also have not seen anything about CO2, do you inject it and if so, what are your KH and pH?
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:58 AM   #11
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1tsp of CSM+B into 36gallons is over 2ppm Iron. Dosing 1/16-1/8th is better. If you do not have these teaspoon sizes consider dosing from solution. Plantbrain likes to do whacky stuff like dose Fe this high for his curiosity, but most agree you are currently dosing about 10x too much traces. This may not be the cause of your problems, but more reasonable dosing won't hurt.

I agree with fish_4_all and suspect you will also need to increase light for some of your plants. Emersed growth will die back: no way to save that. Just trim off the submerged growth when its a few inches long.
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:04 AM   #12
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I thought the CSM+B was being dosed from solution not dry, my bad.
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Old 09-19-2006, 02:52 AM   #13
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lol yeah the csm+b is dry, I just mix a teaspoon in with tank water in a cup and then dose. How is that only 2.7 wpg, 80 watts flourus plus 40 watts (2 cf's) =120 watts/36=3.333 so im guessing a little under 3wpg with restrike and loss of florus from hanging over on the sides.

Fish, I have 2 2 liter bottles diy co2 Tap PH is 7.0 tank PH is 6.0 (doesnt go any lower on chart) KH is 3

Cz- I dosed less csm+b before I got my new plants and my cabomba started to show iron def. so I upped the dosage to a 1/2 teaspoon from a 1/4 and the plants become perfectly green again. So with all the new plants, 6 new strains about 30 actual plants I figured a teaspoon would be a safe bet. The cabomba hasnt showed any more yellow which was why I was so confused about the red plant turning yellow because I knew it wasnt iron def
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:17 AM   #14
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80 watt 48 inch, 10 inches lost. 1.67 watt/inch = 63 watts. Screw in give you 40 watts total with about 30% restrike and standard reflector so figure 50% effective, 20 watts. total 83 watts so about 2.3 w/g, could be as high as 2.5 w/g. It could be a low figure but from the looks of your tank, the thickness of the plants is cutting the penetration by 50% or more anyway. Not that I would complain if i had that kind of growth but it is rather thick. The numbers are guesses, nothing factual but based on myself using the same bulbs and putting them beside my own 48 inch t12, they are rather dim and don't pentrate very well.

The best advice, if it grows plant and you don't show signs of light dficiency then don't change it! Thats how I decide if I have enough light. If all my plants grow then I have enough, period.

AS for your iron, you aren't dosing CSM+B with PO4 are you? If you are, stop. It sounds like you could have a major iron fallout if you are and that is why you have to dose so much.
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Old 09-19-2006, 04:25 AM   #15
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I'm also usually of the opinion that if it helps the plants keep doing it. Still, its a lot of CSM+B though and I think you should dose it a little lower for a couple weeks and see what happens. If your emersed stuff turns yellow it doesn't count btw, just the submerged growth.

Was it new growth on Cabomba that turned yellow? If it was older growth I lean towards the points above about nitrate. I do think you should double the dose, which will ensure NO3 is available but won't help the reds much, but I am of the opinion you should get healthy plants than get the red back later by adjustment. (Green plants are healthy.)

From your other thread it looks like you've been making a lot of adjustments recently. One method is to start with an established dosing schedule for a few weeks and see what you think. Then make adjustments one at a time if you see algae or deficiency.
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Old 09-19-2006, 01:21 PM   #16
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well it was the top part of the plant that was turning yellow so newish growth but it wasnt brand new. , So cz you think I should cut back on the csm+b?

Fish, im doing csm+b one day, then liquid phosphate the next day along with potassium and nitrate.

So here is what I gathered so far, I have lower lighting than expected (shucks lol)

I need to cut back my csm+b to what would you recommend cz?
Nitrates need to be uped on dosage
Keep dosing potassium at 20ml
keep dosing phosphourus at 10ml
All of the above 3x weekley.
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:17 PM   #17
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I do think you should cut back on the CSM+B. I'd suggest dosing 1/16-1/8tsp of CSM+B every other day. Or, if you have an empty 250mL bottle from Seachem laying around, add 2 teaspoons of CSM+B, then dose 10mLs every other day for ~.2ppm Fe. Then you can go up or down by 50% easily if your plants show adjustment is needed.

For EI, you could do something like:
1/8-1/4tsp KNO3 is 3-7ppm Nitrate and 2-4ppm Potassium
10-30mLs PO4 is 0.3-1ppm PO4
10-20mLs Potassium is 3-7ppm Potassium

3x weekly, then 50% water change. Personally I'd dose Seachem potassium once after water change, then keep up the KNO3 dosing. I'd dose the PO4 on the high end. I'm using FertFriend for your Seachem calcs.

JMO and you may get other good advice. Give us updates in a week and two to see how the plants are doing.
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:30 PM   #18
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alright thank you so much, thast what I really needed. I dosed 1/8 tsp of CSM+b today and I will follow the rest of the EI schedule. I will let yall know in a week or so how everythings working out. Do I add in the potassium from the pot nitrate or do I not take that in to account when Im dosing liquid postassium?
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Old 09-21-2006, 02:46 AM   #19
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Add the Potassium from KNO3: it counts. Lots of us like lots of Potassium and most everyone agrees you won't go wrong with even 100ppm K, so dose it to your delight and see what you think. I think of Potassium-only fertilization as bonus, and since too much doesn't hurt, just dose it once a week.

Don't be afraid to dose 1/2tsp or so of KNO3, either. Just keep your CO2, dosing, and water changes up. Again you can crash NO3 for color whenever you're ready.

Congrats on the pearling!
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Old 09-22-2006, 09:50 PM   #20
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Thanks! Ive been following the dosing schedule posted above that you gave me and I noticed a BIG lose of algea on my driftwood. Now im working on getting that bba gone. Ive also noticed the plants have started to turn greener and look more healthy overall. Not sure what you did but you got it right! Thanks bud
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