PO4 Disaster

[fish_4_all]

I just mixed Gregs Dry Fertilizer and my PO4, after 2 hours now measures 10-1000. Tested 3 times with same results. I don't know how high it is. I measured the dose exactly as it said, 1 tsp in 100 ml of water. Then I dosed 1 teaspoon for appr. 1 ppm.

What happened?
Dosed KNO3, got 10ppm
Dosed MgSO4 for appr. 7ppm
Dosed K2SO4 for appr. 14ppm
pH 6.8
GH 225-250
CO2 passive bell
Water pH 7.0, GH 250
PO4 less than .5 ppm
NO3 minimul

After water change, NO3 less than 5 ppm, PO4 less than .5 ppm

Is there something throwing my numbers off?

EDIT : Possible Key note: There was an oily sheen on top of the water that was always there for 6 weeks or so even after water change. It is now gone with no sign it ever existed.

IMPORTANT! : I really need to know, will this hurt my fish!?!?!?!

 

[Lonewolfblue]

What size tank?

If you put 1tsp in 100ml of water, then each ml of that water will raise a 20G tank .44ppm.

In a 75G, each ml of that water added will raise it .12ppm. So adding 10ml of the solution will up your PO4 in a 75G by 1.2ppm.

Not sure what effects high PO4 would have on fish, but will definitely cause an algae problem.

 

[fish_4_all]

10 gallon tank

 

[Lonewolfblue]

For a 10G tank, each 1ml will raise the PO4 .88ppm. So you would only want to add just a hair over 1ml of the solution.

Edit:
What I did was I went to Safeway and asked for a plastic syringe for dosing ferts in the tank. The one here gave it to me for free. It measures up to 10ml. Instead of going by inaccurate teaspoon measurements, this might be a better solution. It's given me more accurate control of my dosing.

 

[fish_4_all]

I did, 1.25 ml or 1 teaspoon. That at worst should have raised it to 1.5ppm. Not off the scale of 10.

I really think the oil sheen is a key here. I don't know why it disappeared but it did.
Before I dosed the I changed the water, reading were very low. PO4 less than .5ppm. Did I inherit a magic PO4 fairy somehow. LOL

Biggest worry, will it hurt my fish if this is a true reading or is there little chance this is a true reading and I should just quit worrying about it?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Have you tried testing it again, just to be sure it is that high? With that dosing, unless you somehow made a stronger solution than what you think it is, your measurement should have been correct.

 

[An t-iasg]

1.25 ml is only about one-fourth a teaspoon, not a whole teaspoon. My 1/4 teaspoon reads - 1/4 teaspoon or 1.2 ml.

In my 5 gallon tank, I only add 2-3 drops a week of phosphate (Greg's).

 

[fish_4_all]

Well problem has been pointed out, thank you Lonewolf and An t-iasg.

Just so no one else makes this mistake:

1 teaspoon = 4.93 ml
1/4 or .25 of a teaspoon is close to 1.25 ml

My levels are higher than they should be at 5ppm with my major dose.(biggy ooooppppsss) but I think it has to do with my other macrois that have never been added. Will see where the levels are tomorrow.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

And if anyone has a question on any conversions, you can get the conversions here:

http://www.onlineconversion.com

They have just about every conversion you can imagine.

 

[malkore]

What are you using to test PO4 levels? SeaChem is the cheapest test kit that's actually reliable. Then you bump up to $30 Salifert, or $40 LaMotte/Hach.


The 'oily sheen' is protein and DOC's sitting on the water surface. weekly 50% water changes should keep these from building up unless you have an extremely high bioload, or you're overfeeding fish with high protein foods.

 

[7Enigma]

I'm currently sitting over 5ppm of phosphate in my tank as well (not good I know). I'm getting some green algae on my tank walls and pots where the light comes in. Should this be removed manually or should I just leave it in there to work out itself.

Also I'm starting to see some diatoms INSIDE my filter intake on the aquaclear. Should I try to remove these, or leave them alone? The only way I could see getting to them would be by finding something to jam up inside the intake line to scratch it off. Am I better soaking it in a mild bleach solution for a couple of minutes and then putting it in some dechlor water before going back into the tank?

Sounds like for both you and I PWC's are about the only thing that will help. I've been waiting over a week to hopefully naturally use up the phosphates, but it doesn't seem to be going down appreciably (its really tough to read anything between 5 and 10 on my AP kit).

 

[Glenc]

Do at least one 50% water change to re-set your fert levels. I have over dosed my tank before and once I knew what I had done, I immediately did 2 or 3 large water changes to rid my system of the excess fert, then balanced them again. By waiting for the excess fert to get used up you are allowing other problems to develop. If you get green water it's a real pain to get rid of. Good luck, HTH

 

[7Enigma]

I know, I know. The problem is my tap water is very soft and so I'm concerned about the stress on the fish of changing too many things at once. Right now in the tank I've dosed calcium, potassium, magnesium, phosphate, flourish, carbonate, some salt due to the potassium and magnesium, and the pH is low due to the DIY CO2.

I'm afraid if I do a large PWC, there is no way I can keep these values close to what they are (especially since I cannot measure potassium or magnesium) and I might stress the fish out (especially the Oto's!). It's Friday, so tomorrow morning I'll check my levels again. If they are not acceptable (5:1 nitrAte to phosphate MINIMUM), I'll do a large 50% PWC and try to get my premixed new water to similar levels for things I can test (KH, GH). I'll be adding the water back in VERY slowly and keep an eye on the fish to see if they are behaving stressed. Hopefully everything will go without a problem.

 

[fish_4_all]

Well my PO4 has dropped in 2 days from 10+ to about 7.5.
NO3 is down from 10 to 7.5.
Means I should be at acceptable levels in 6 days or so but I do a water change on saturday anyway so I am going to let them sit. I have had no algae growth in the 2+ days and it has actually stopped growing on my glass so the PO4 isn't causing a larger algae problem.

The only dilema is the same as your, kinda. I dosed Mg and K and don't know how much to add now, if any. I know they will help the plants use up the PO4 but if my levels are dropping at this rate, then shouldn't the Mg and K drop about the same?

50% water changes every day would stress my fish out to the max. They sit and mope for 24-36 hours after the normal water change anyway.

If your levels are dropping at the same rate as mine then you should be fine at the normal water change time. When I change mine tomorrow, I will do the normal 50% which should have my PO4 under 3 and NO3 about the same. I will simply dose my NO3 to bring it up to 10ppm and dose 1/2 of the K and Mg. Traces will be dosed tomorrow as I dosed them yesterday.

If it was NO3, I would have done water changes as soon as I found the problem to get them down to safe levels. The PO4 Isn't going to hurt the fish, at least no one has said it will so I will not stress them out more than I have to.

 

[7Enigma]

fish_4_all,

Are you under extremely high light? I don't believe even the highest light tanks with ample macro and micro nutrients can go through 2.5ppm phosphate in 48 hours. Is this is liquid test that is difficult to see the difference between 5 and 10ppm? I have had my tank now at high phosphates for two weeks and cannot really see a difference in levels (it should go down very slowly compared to other nutrients). As for your algae, you might get lucky, but in my case it took a good week or so to start seeing any, and now my pots and glass siding have a good bit on them.

 

[fish_4_all]

Not extremely high light but around 3.5 watts per gallon. The PO4 has dropped to less than 5 ppm after todays water change. My tap water has right around .5ppm or just under. I can't get my PO4 levels down below 1 ppm without a ton of water changes so instead of stressing my fish out I will just not add it for a while. I haven't noticed any algae blooms yet, cross fingers.

When I added my Red Melon sword to the tank, it took my PO4 levels from 2 to 1 in less than 2 days. 3 days later it was down to .5 ppm. I would think I add about .25 ppm PO4 with just feeding my corys every day. That's why my levels were so high before I get the sword, I think.

As far as getting algae, I already have it and have had it for months now. I have to scrape the glass all the time so no big change there. Hopefully I will eventually get my nutrients low enough that the algae won't stand a chance once I get my BN plecos but until then, I scrape with my magnetic scraper.

So the nutrafin master test kit on Big Al's is a good one but the PO4 test isn't accurate enough?

I am using the AP test kit right now. I know, not the best but the best I could afford. That includes the PO4 test. I am fairly good at seeing the blue hues, it is the reds I have a hard time with. Wife is good with them. Between the two of us we can be fairly accurate looking at the color schemes.

I will be getting the better tests as soon as I can afford to drop $60 on test kits. Until then, I guess I just give my best guess.

 

[7Enigma]

WOW, I thought the AP liquid test kits were excellent. Didn't know the phosphate one wasn't great (just bought it). What's so bad about it? Not being able to accurately tell the difference between the colors, or it not being accurate measuring?

 

[fish_4_all]

From what I have been told it is that the colors aren't easily distinguished. I don't know about the true accuracy so someone else will have to speculate there.