Project "no salt needed" build thread

[kdogg85]

I'm starting my build thread now and documenting the growth of my 125g planted tank. I gave the thread the name "no salt needed" because I'm coming from a reef tank.

I got the tank cleaned up and placed back in my den. In the pic is how my filtration will be setup, the black box in the bottom right will be where the pump draws from and the clear box in the top left will be where the filter media is and be the discharge of the pump. The pump will be under the cabinet in a tote for leak protection. It's there to show the flow path.

Filtration equipment is a split apart eshopps 900gph overflow with mag7 700gph pump with provisions to install one of my bigger pumps if needed.

The lighting will come from a Current USA t5ho 12 lamp fixture with 8 lamps installed giving 322 watts.

Substrate will be eco complete on the ends with dry aragonite in the middle to break it up. The sand will just have a couple rocks laying on it and be an open swimming area.

My fish list includes 4 electric blue rams, 20-30 neons or jumbos, 4 discus(I can't stand it, have to have a few), 5-8 Cory's, maybe a dwarf flame gourami, any other suggestions welcome.

Plants, the routine low-moderate light stuff. I'll detail that as I get them. My plan is to buy 1-2 of what I want and let them grow to the amount I want. What are a couple fast growers for the cycle portion?

 

[Sillyfishies]

I'm starting my build thread now and documenting the growth of my 125g planted tank. I gave the thread the name "no salt needed" because I'm coming from a reef tank.

I got the tank cleaned up and placed back in my den. In the pic is how my filtration will be setup, the black box in the bottom right will be where the pump draws from and the clear box in the top left will be where the filter media is and be the discharge of the pump. The pump will be under the cabinet in a tote for leak protection. It's there to show the flow path.

Filtration equipment is a split apart eshopps 900gph overflow with mag7 700gph pump with provisions to install one of my bigger pumps if needed.

The lighting will come from a Current USA t5ho 12 lamp fixture with 8 lamps installed giving 322 watts.

Substrate will be eco complete on the ends with dry aragonite in the middle to break it up. The sand will just have a couple rocks laying on it and be an open swimming area.

My fish list includes 4 electric blue rams, 20-30 neons or jumbos, 4 discus(I can't stand it, have to have a few), 5-8 Cory's, maybe a dwarf flame gourami, any other suggestions welcome.

Plants, the routine low-moderate light stuff. I'll detail that as I get them. My plan is to buy 1-2 of what I want and let them grow to the amount I want. What are a couple fast growers for the cycle portion?

You should put that RO to use if your keeping discus. I'd up the cory amount and do another school of about 20 fish (small).

 

[Billbug68]

Sounds like a great plan so far. I love your stock list too, it'll make for some beautiful movement in the tank. My only suggestions would be to make sure the sand area is a bit off center, and to get a black background on the tank. Looking forward to seeing this pan out, it's always interesting to see salties go fresh, it's typically the other way around! Love the thread title too.

 

[Billbug68]

Yeah, I agree, up the Cory count, but IMO stick with one large school of neons. Two schooling or shoaling species can make it look a little chaotic. There's nothing like the movement of a huge school if neons or cardinals, and you definitely have the space for it.

 

[Rivercats]

That is a lot of light so your going to seriously have to decide if your going to use high dose of liquid carbon or CO2. Plus you'll need to dose dry ferts.

Good plants to start with are ones like Water Sprite, Wisteria, any fast growing stem plants like Ambulia are good too.

Honestly if your wanting to do Discus I definitely would not use aragonite. It's going to increase your kh/gh/ph which won't be good. You can get any other sand.

Another thing the Discus need higher temps which rams love but you need to research other fish that like temps that warm. Sterbai Cory cats like higher temps. Rummynose and Cardinals also do well in higher temps.

 

[kdogg85]

Speaking of RO water, do I need to use the di section of it as well or just the RO section? The tds is about 3-7 out of the RO unit, the di unit takes it to 0.

Anywho, as far as fish, I don't want a stockyard full in the tank, my reef was pitifully under stocked only had 6 fish in there, only 2 of them got big. The rest were runts. I know the discus like the heat, that's why I've been looking very closely at mates from the same temperature zone.

I thought being under 3wpg, I'd be ok as far as not needed co2. I can yank a couple bulbs out if I need to, I did mod the reflector and have some awesome par all the way to the bottom, is par more the case than wattage?

This is killing me about the sand, I have 2 bags laying in the basement, my ph is out of the tap is 6.2, haven't checked kh/gh yet. But, I fear it'll be kinda high because taking a shower is like being hit with rocks. Doesn't the eco buffer the ph more towards the acidic side?

 

[Billbug68]

Play sand is like 5 bucks for a 50 pound bag at Home Depot. You just have to rinse the crap out of it. I don't think Eco really buffers the water, but I could be wrong, I've never used it. I believe it's pretty much just crushed up lava rock.

 

[Rivercats]

Speaking of RO water, do I need to use the di section of it as well or just the RO section? The tds is about 3-7 out of the RO unit, the di unit takes it to 0.

Anywho, as far as fish, I don't want a stockyard full in the tank, my reef was pitifully under stocked only had 6 fish in there, only 2 of them got big. The rest were runts. I know the discus like the heat, that's why I've been looking very closely at mates from the same temperature zone.

I thought being under 3wpg, I'd be ok as far as not needed co2. I can yank a couple bulbs out if I need to, I did mod the reflector and have some awesome par all the way to the bottom, is par more the case than wattage?

This is killing me about the sand, I have 2 bags laying in the basement, my ph is out of the tap is 6.2, haven't checked kh/gh yet. But, I fear it'll be kinda high because taking a shower is like being hit with rocks. Doesn't the eco buffer the ph more towards the acidic side?

Your water doesn't run through a water softener unit does it? If not with a ph out of you tap at 6.2 you won't need RO. In fact your going to have to add minerals like Seachem's Equilibrium to get ph/gh/kh up just a bit.

I understand about the sand but what worries me is you won't know how much it's going to raise ph and kh in the tank. It could make it too high for the discus. I wouldn't be quite as worried if you weren't going to have Discus.

Par is the important thing! WPG is obsolete with all the new lighting these days.

 

[kdogg85]

No water softener. Is 6.2 really that bad? I'm sure nature has a little swing every now and then. Couldn't I just remove the sand if the hardness and ph go up too high while it's cycling? It will be in a central location, not mixed in with the eco. Please don't think I'm being an ***, I'm just asking for future references, plus I do not like leaving out any details.

I was sort of afraid you'd say par is the king, same thing with the reefers, my fixture grew acroporas like crazy, I had to put my mushrooms under ledges to keep from frying them, if that's any indication of what my light will do.

Working on the plumbing, about 1/2 way done. Just wish my sub would show up so I can get going.

Never too early to ask, who would be the preferred breeders to get discus from? The lfs is out of the question, for now anyway.

 

[Rivercats]

Hey if you don't ask questions you'll never know the right answers! So yes, you could use it and if it alters ph/kh too much you can remove it. It's just a PITA doing that IMO.

Discus like low ph and soft water but the problem is when ph drops to 6.5 or below biological activity slows. When ph drops to 6 or below biological activity stops and BB begin to die off. Also when your kh drops to 3 and below there isn't enough buffers in the water to keep a stable ph. I try keeping my kh/gh both at 3 or 4. I have harder water so I use RO water as I have an RO unit too.

With that kind of lighting your going to grow algae. You would have to run CO2 from the start and limit your photoperiod to 6 or less hours. I have a monster Aquatic Life Metal Halides and T5HO fixture plus I run a Build My Led fixture too on the 220. I have very high light but get incredible color in my plants. I also can only run my T5HO's for 2 hours, then all lights for 6 hours, then run the BML fixture at 10% for another hour. I also have to use liquid carbon along with the CO2. I have to be very careful as I have no room for error in keeping my tank balanced so it stays algae free.

 

[GodFan]

I'm starting my build thread now and documenting the growth of my 125g planted tank. I gave the thread the name "no salt needed" because I'm coming from a reef tank.

I got the tank cleaned up and placed back in my den. In the pic is how my filtration will be setup, the black box in the bottom right will be where the pump draws from and the clear box in the top left will be where the filter media is and be the discharge of the pump. The pump will be under the cabinet in a tote for leak protection. It's there to show the flow path.

Filtration equipment is a split apart eshopps 900gph overflow with mag7 700gph pump with provisions to install one of my bigger pumps if needed.

The lighting will come from a Current USA t5ho 12 lamp fixture with 8 lamps installed giving 322 watts.

Substrate will be eco complete on the ends with dry aragonite in the middle to break it up. The sand will just have a couple rocks laying on it and be an open swimming area.

My fish list includes 4 electric blue rams, 20-30 neons or jumbos, 4 discus(I can't stand it, have to have a few), 5-8 Cory's, maybe a dwarf flame gourami, any other suggestions welcome.

Plants, the routine low-moderate light stuff. I'll detail that as I get them. My plan is to buy 1-2 of what I want and let them grow to the amount I want. What are a couple fast growers for the cycle portion?

Welcome to the freshie side! In a tank that size you could do a beautiful school of otocinclus! In large schools they show very unique activity. Or if you wanna get fancy check out zebra ottos. Gorgeous.
I would up the cory school to maybe 20 and then get 20-40 ottos!

 

[kdogg85]

RC, don't you just love hearing your power meter do a burnout when the halides kick on?

I did check the ph of the same water today at the lfs, 7.1, the lady said my kit is bad because she draws from the same municipality as me, full refund and the new kit showed 7.1 as well, kh is 7, gh is 5. Tested by me and the lfs, got the same results, oh and nitrate is less than 5 out of the tap. So that's good, may have to blend a little RO/DI, but we'll see.

I've been reading and you tubing a lot today about cycling, I've seen do 6 90% pwc over 3 days, plant right as the water hits the substrate, don't plant do 50% once a week for 2 months, then plant. Granted, these are for dirt,( which I may do to make the eco stretch a little more), but I figured it's somewhat the same thing(eco vs dirt) never be too careful cycling.

Speaking of, I have not seen a tank with just eco, I've seen eco with gravel or sand on top, is this just to keep a dust storm down, either way I'm going with a 2" bed.

I'll get the pics of my filter setup on here tomorrow, I'm waiting on the silicone repair on the drawbox to dry up anyway. Should have plenty of room for poly fill, and a carbon chamber if I need it.

 

[Rivercats]

You know back in the day when I ran at least 2 100g reefs at a time metal halides was the only way to go. I actually went outside a couple times to be at the electric meter just to see how much it would speed up! It's not so bad now as I run 3- 150w HID metal halides but only 6 hours.

If nitrates are under 5ppm you might actually be okay and not have to dose nitrates in your fert regime. The gh/kh are both good as is the ph for a planted tank. You could use a small amount of RO to lower then but I wouldn't. And if you use Organic Potting Soil the organics (which is a lot of peat) will naturally soften water over time after 3 or so months. I have 5 tanks with only Eco Complete as the substrate. Many people mix the Eco with sand or other substrates to stretch it out since Eco is so expensive. Oh if you do a dirted be sure to keep the dirt back from the edges by about 2" because using your cap substrate in the front and side viewing area's looks much better than a dirt/cap line.

I've dirted a lot of tanks over the years and if you go that route you have a couple options. If you use Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil you can dirt, cap, and fill the tank the first day. Run your filter. The next day do a large WC, plant, the refill. If you use a different brand like I do you can dirt, cap, and fill the tank one day. Run filter. Empty and fill tank 6-7 days, then do a 50% WC plant, and let it finish cycling. I had a cycled tank within 10 days and added my 14 angels. If you plant over 80% of your substrate with a lot of fast growing plants your tank can do a silent cycle in a matter of days.

 

[kdogg85]

Well, I would post he pics of my filter setup but the manage attach button won't work. Go figure.

Anyway, the other bags of eco showed up today, giving me 120 pounds total, will that be enough for the bottom? If not, I'll get a couple bags of dirt and stretch it out.

RC, thanks for the cycling tips. That made more sense than anything else I've read.

 

[kdogg85]

Ok well here are the pics, the tote is for leak protection only.