Question about planted tanks?

[Mad Professor]

Ok I'm a newbie to planted tanks and I have read all the stickys and articles on plants and what they need.

I always thought you needed to replace the fixture if you were to grow plants and having to buy minerals and nutrients mixture to grow such things. I thought it was an expensive task.

But I was looking around one day and saw a topic created by lonewolf, which you can read here http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=84332
And I see that his 10 gallons have normal hoods. So I'm guessing its a Low Lighting tank with plants.

And right now I have a 29 gallon That I'm preparing, *DAMN MTS* and also a 10 Gallon which I've recently put sand in, to see what it would look like before I put it in the 29 gallon.

But now I want to grow plants in my 10 gallon and see if it something I would be up to.


I'm guessing a low lighting would be best to start out on?
is it a daily task or a weekly task?
I need a new bulb for the 10 gallon anyways.
So what bulb would I need for it?
What would I need interms of supplies/equipment to grow such plants?
What plants would be best for me?

Any advice is welcome.

Thx
~Mp

 

[Jchillin]

If I were you, I would try for the 29 as a planted tank. A 10 gal low-light tank doesn't allow much room for plant varieties. You would need to put at least a 40w bulb (or combo of bulbs on it. All-Glass has a nice 55w CF light that would be perfect.

Equipment is the same as a regular FW tank. You could use specialty susbstrates like eco-complete, Turface, etc, but regular pea-sized gravel works will.

You will definitely need fertilizers. Probably not so much micros but definitely macros (ie: Potassium and Nitrate).

Going on the assumption of the 29, you could do: Java ferns, anubias, moneywort(s), hornwort, bacopa, Ludiwigia (sp), Java moss, crypt (sp) and many others.

 

[Mad Professor]

Well I was thinking of starting with low lighting and working my way up to the 29 gallon. So you're saying I can't buy a t-8 bulb with a 18,000 K rating *probley only be 10k or less max*
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12763&N=2004+113350
won't be sufficient in growing low light plants in a 10 gallon with 1 1/2" of silica sand *PFS* substrate.

Two; you're saying I would need a new fixture for my 29 gallon. HMMM Well I'm not so sure if I can fit one under there since the 29 gallon is on the lower bi-level of the stand, empty at the moment. I already have a 10 gallon sitting on the top, thats already established with 4 tiger barbs, 2 black skirts, and 1 cory. Its a different 10 gallon and not the one in question.
SO.......



Also is doing the fertilizers a daily task or a weekly task? Just wondering.


Edit add some pictures to give you an idea...
Sorry my house is a bit messy... lol
My setup....

The tank in question....

 

[Purrbox]

The problem is that with small tanks the WPG "rule" breaks down. You need more light to reach each of the lighting levels. 15watts over a 10 Gallon tank is going to be very low light. While you could probably get some plants to grow, it's going to be very challenging.

I believe that LoneWolfBlue is using a incadescent fixture over that tank. That allows him to use self ballasted screw in compact flourescents in the hood to be able to get more light. With two 10 watt bulbs you start to hit the levels where low light plants are more feasible. With either 15 watt or 20 watt bulbs, the options open up even more.

The K rating has more to due with how the bulb makes the tank look to us than how beneficial it is to the plant growth. Most prefer 6700K for the way it makes plants look. The higher K rating bulbs tend to bring out more of the colors of the fish.

How often you need to fertilize depends on the needs of your tank. As a general rule higher light tanks require daily fertilizing and lower light tanks only require fertilizing once a week. How heavily planted and stocked the tank is will also make a difference on the frequency and amount of fertilization.

 

[Mad Professor]

I added pics in my last post.

Anyways you're saying I need at least 20 watts before I can do some sort of growth in a 10 gallon?

So basically you're telling me
One does not simply walk into mordor.

ok. So 29 gallon is the new objective....
Unless you think that incadescent lighting would be worth it for the 10 gallon.
I don't mind, this hood is really old, it was from my first tank.

Ok whats the most efficient lighting. IE: low maintenance, low running cost. ETC....

Edit:
jchillin you mean one of these?
Will these fit the existing hood?
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3773&N=2004+113345

 

[JRagg]

Yeah, LWB does have the screw in CF bulbs over his tank. It's a pretty high light tank.

I started off with the hood that you have Mad Professor (I've got a 10g planted now) and the 15W strip is not enough to grow anything substantial. I couldn't get anything to do much of anything with that lighting over it. I retrofitted my flourescent hood with one of the http://www.ahsupply.com kits. So with bulbs that cost me about $30, and it also requires a glass hood. So that was another $10. I have 26W of CF bulbs over my tank right now, and it is right at the medium light threshold.

I would agree with Purrbox and say that the 29 would be a more fun project. There is so much more that you can put in a 29g that you can't put in a 10g. I've got a Red Melon Sword in my tank, and unfortunately it's bordering on the point where I'll have to remove it. Most stuff just gets too big for a 10g tank.

 

[Mad Professor]

Ok I guess the 29 gallon would be more ideal.

So I would get the all-glass compact fluorescent 55 watt * http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3773&N=2004+113345 * which would be enough for low lighting right? It will fit my existing plastic hood with glass?

Order filter and new light strip sometime by the end of this month.
Put sand in and fill tank and cross fingers for that.
I would have to put fish in and establish the tank? *nitrates reason*
I plan on taking my sister tiger barbs and black skirts and adding on to that group.
Then get plants and fertilizer?

 

[Jchillin]

Bingo on the light, the 30" is exactly what I'm talking about.

Seed the tank with media from your other tanks, and plant immediately. Get some fast grower's like hornwort, anacharis and java ferns. That will keep your parameters in check and you can stock a light load of fish right from the beginning.

 

[Purrbox]

I love nanos actually. My 10 gallon is actually the BIG tank in my house. There's a lot you can do with one, it just may not be the easiest to start with. It takes a lot more care in selecting appropriate plants, usually not the ones available at your LFS.

You'll want to replace the canopy with a glass canopy, otherwise you run the risk of blocking part of your light. Something like this. That light will probably push you into medium low to medium light but should be just short of requiring CO2. Definately a good place to start.

Actually you'll want to add the plants and start fertilizing before/as you add fish. The plants can consume all forms of Nitrogen, including Ammonia and Nitrite, and will help you with cycling the tank more gently. If you decide on any heavy root feeders (Swords and Crypts for instance), you'll probably want to pick up some root tabs too.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Yeah, LWB does have the screw in CF bulbs over his tank. It's a pretty high light tank.

Actually, I tried the 25W bulbs, and they work ok. They are just a little bigger round and put a lot of stress on the fixture and thought that over time it might break. So I went back to the 20W bulbs. For a total of 40W. They work pretty well. Not real high light though, as the reflectors aren't the best. But there is a lot that you can grow with those bulbs.

I'm gonna try the DIY lighting from AH Supply next, to see how I like it. Just wondering if I should do a 1x36W Brite Kit or a 2x36W Brite Kit. Hmmmm, lol.

 

[JRagg]

I'm gonna try the DIY lighting from AH Supply next, to see how I like it. Just wondering if I should do a 1x36W Brite Kit or a 2x36W Brite Kit. Hmmmm, lol.

Yeah, I wasn't paying attention when I got mine. I thought the 2x13 was the most light I could get over a 10g tank. I'm happy with it though. I would have had an algae mess if I had tried to learn how to do this stuff with a high light tank.

Purrbox, I guess I came off wrong with my comment on the 10g tank. There is a lot you can do, but like you said you have to take a lot more care selecting plants.

 

[Mad Professor]

Anything else in equipment?

I'm getting a filstar xp1 canister filter for the 29 gallon, along with All Glass compact 55W fixture with glass hood.
I'm getting filstar ceramic rings along with bio stars for filter media which I plan on putting some of that in my 44 gallon tanks filter.
2 bottles of stress coat for I and my grandmother. We're running low.
A bulb for the 10 gallon and some media bags.
Totaling out at 214$

Thats going to punch me in the stomach.


What about replacement bulbs I've read that you have to replace it every 9-12 months because it degrades? Do I have to get the same bulb or can I get something else?
Example the bulb coming with the compact fixture is 9325°K Super Daylight 55W bulb
and if I have to replace it, it will cost $34.99
Unlike The Full Spectrum 8000ºK 55W where it cost $17.99
Will it perform the same?


Now with fertilizer, what would I need? Is it specific to certain plant types?
Is there an online retailer that has what I need?

I'm all excited, can't wait to put the PFS in....

 

[fish_4_all]

I also use the dual 20 watts screw in fluorescents over one of my tanks it works great. Grows anubias, vals, rosetta sword, crypts, sunset hygro and R. Rotundifolia. They do work just fine when I use them but I still prefer the dual 48" 40 watt NO fluorescent for less heat. As the weather cools I will use the dual 20 watts screw ins a lot more for the heat. Gonna set up a dual 15 watts T8 fixture from the ones I have laying around for the other tank and see how it does. Should be about the same wattage as the dual 20 watt spirals. If you decide to try the screw ins, make sure they are 6500K.

Fertilizers, www.gregwatson.com for dry fertilizers. Best and cheapest way to buy them, also very good fertilizers IMHO. CSM+B, KH2PO4, KNO3, K2SO4, get some epson salts for MgSO4 or order then from Gregs for about the same price. I would also suggest but I don't know that they will be absolutely needed, CaSO4 and chelated iron for possible future needs and if you decide to mess around with DIY root tabs. Someone may disagree and have a valid point so I don't know if you actually need them.

 

[Mad Professor]

In the fertilizers sticky, it said to use leaf zone or seachem flourish for low light plants, because the fish bio-load would be enough to support the plant load.
Is this correct or is there something to this?
Would you recommend it?


Edit: I've found a cheaper Compact but its 65 watts.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11418&N=2004+113345
Would that push me over? I'm guessing I'll still need the glass canopy too?

Am I better off with the 55 watt. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3773&N=2004+113345

???

 

[Jchillin]

There are several variables in regard to fertilizers, even in a low-light tank due to the bio-load. I personally started out using no ferts, which was fine because I had more fish than plants. As I added more plants, I then realized after watching plants looking unhealthy, began using flourish root tabs. I then progressed to flourish potassium and flourish nitrogen.

I am now using dry ferts from Greg Watson. KNO3 is probably the best all around macro for the low-light tank since it contains both potassium and nitrate which are essential for good health.

You will go through a "trial and error" period. No two tanks are exactly the same so you will eventually find which ferts and the dosing amounts for your tank.

The 65w will put you over 2wpg, which is injected CO2 territory. Go with the 55.

 

[Mad Professor]

Ok thats what I thought..
I mean its 10watts more where the 55 watt would be putting out 1.8-1.9WPG where as the 65 watt would be putting out 2.2 WPG. I don't know if this has been brought up but wouldn't overstocking the tank a bit, take care of the nitrates/CO2 problem. Theres only 0.4-0.5 wpg difference so I wouldn't think that CO2 injection would be needed. Plus this light is cheaper and it has the lunar lighting which would look intresting and cool.

I would really like to know what you think...

 

[Jchillin]

Unfortunately, it's the light level that forces the addition of CO2. The bio-load (or fish respiration) cannot achieve the levels of CO2 needed to fight off the onslaught of opportunistic algae that is just sitting around waiting.

In regard to cost and savings, your tank is the ideal size for DIY CO2. From what I've been exposed to by other members, it's relatively inexpensive to maintain and the only cost is the price of a regulator. I'm sure the DIY'ers will chime in regarding that aspect.

 

[Mad Professor]

So you're saying that its cheaper to go with the 55 watt in the long run and save myself from the inexperiance, pain and agony suffering from total disaster if something were to happen.

I had another question I posted and I guess people skipped over that.

What about replacement bulbs? I've read that you have to replace it every 9-12 months because it degrades? Do I have to get the same bulb or can I get something else?
Example the bulb coming with the compact fixture is 9325°K Super Daylight 55W bulb
and if I have to replace it, it will cost $34.99
Unlike The Full Spectrum 8000ºK 55W where it cost $17.99
Will it perform the same?

Man this is getting to be a long list of questions... LOL

 

[rich311k]

NO bulbs need replaced once a year as the spectrum starts to change, even if they are still working. PC bulbs you can use until they die.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I thought PC/CF bulbs lost their spectrum as well, and need to be changed out once a year for optimum performance...