Starting over with plants

[AdamHorton]

I've had a planted tank, the tank itself has been around for around 4 years, and it has been planted for at least 1 1/2 years. Something has been going on and for some reason, the only thing I've been able to keep alive in the tank has been the plants. I've started other threads on here trying to figure it out, I've asked around, and done my own experimenting. I've come to the conclusion that it's time to start this tank over.

I'm going to remove everything, clean it up real good, put in all new filter media, and do a fishless cycle. Then, I'll be attempting to make it into a shrimp tank. There's nothing about this that I don't think I can handle...

...however, I want to have the same plants that are in there now (and that are doing so well) in the restarted tank. I'm wondering what the best way to do this is: should I keep the plants in a separate "quarantine" tank while this one is cycling? How should I care for them during this time?

Here are the specs:

• 20G long glass display tank – 12″D x 30″W x 12″H
• Two AquaClear 20 filters – no carbon inserts, I use an extra foam insert instead
• 50W submersible heater, I keep the temperature between 78F and 80F
• Four small pieces of driftwood used for decoration. The java fern is attached to one of the pieces of driftwood.
• Substrate: there’s an inch of EcoComplete fertilizer at the bottom, with an inch of Flourite red gravel above that
• Lighting: Nova Extreme T5 10000K 30″ system, which is on about 8 hours each day.
• Every other week I do a 50% water change using tap water and SeaChem Prime water conditioner.

The plants in the tank are three anubias plants and the java fern which is attached to the driftwood. Uprooting and replanting these plants is not a problem.

Also, here's a picture of the tank. It's only a couple of months old and nothing about the plants, substrate, or driftwood setup has changed significantly since this picture was taken:

http://www.adamhorton.com/files/flog...rimptank01.jpg

What would be the best course of action to take here?

[rich311k]

You can leave the plants in while cycling. The ammonia will not bother them, they actually like it.

[Mr. Limpet]

Sounds like you're doing everything right. What are your water parameters and how do you test (liquid or strips)?

Starting over with a fishless cycle is feasible I guess, but what fish were you keeping and what was the issue with them?

[HalfMoon B]

The tank looks great!
Nice layout, good driftwood choices too.
I like the idea of a shrimp tank! I have quite a few shrimp, but with fish.

[AdamHorton]

Thanks for the info, I actually have a plan for what I'm going to do now.

A brief history of the tank and how it got to where it is now:

I had been keeping fish in the tank for almost 4 years, and I had some ghost shrimp and RCS in there on and off as well. I didn't know that even my non-aggressive fish would eventually eat the shrimp, but a lot of the shrimp would live for a few months so there never seemed to be any problem. I recently started a 55G freshwater tank and I planned to move all of the fish from my 20G planted tank to the 55G, then make the 20G a planted shrimp-only tank. I moved all of the fish over, but it was a couple of weeks before I could get some RCS, so I just fed the empty tank every day to keep the bacteria population going. I also continued dosing fertilizers just like I had done before.

I got some RCS, put them in the tank, and they all quickly died (within 24 hours). I actually started a thread about that here if you want to read it: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ve-150114.html

I changed a few things, got another local batch of RCS, and tried again. I ended up trying four batches of shrimp (first 3 were RCS, the last was ghost shrimp), and I would do 100% water changes before adding the fish, stop dosing ferts entirely (including Excel). All of the shrimp I put in there died after 24 hours. I kept a close eye on my ammonia and nitrite readings during this time and neither of them even thought about leaving zero.

At this point, I "gave up" on a shrimp tank; I thought there was just too much I didn't know about keeping shrimp and I was doing something wrong, so I got a school of rasboras for the tank instead. All but one of them died within a week (still no ammonia or nitrite) so I moved the last one to the 55G and decided to start this tank over.

I've tried everything I can think of to do, so that's why I'm starting from scratch. Other test readings I've taken were nitrates: they were always between 10 and 20 ppm. I think I also took pH readings and they were around 7.0, I'd have to look back and see if I ever wrote that number down.

I use API liquid test kits to do all of my testing.

My plan is to rinse out the substrate, clean up the entire tank, re-plant everything so it is exactly the way it is now (only cleaned up), use new bio-max material, and start a new fishless cycle. I'll use a little bio-max from my 55G to get it started. I think this is a good plan, yes?

[meegosh]

Did you have any other livestock die other than RCS? Have you ever treated the tank with a copper based medicine? Keep the plants in while cycling, no need for a QT.

[AdamHorton]

The most recent thing I tried was a school of rasboras, which took a week to die instead of 24 hours. There was also a group of ghost shrimp that didn't make it to 24 hours before that.

I've never used anything with copper in the tank as far as medicine goes. I did see that my micro nutrient for the plants had something like 0.00001% copper in it, but I stopped using it and nothing changed. It was Flourish Comprehensive.

[HalfMoon B]

I use flourish and never had a problem with my inverts. No trouble there if you just follow the dosing instructions.
How is your oxygenation?
Do you notice any odd behavior before the fish pass?

[meegosh]

The trace amounts of copper in ferts should not play a factor. I'm assuming your parameters are all normal? Any stray voltage in the tank?

[AdamHorton]

All of the parameters I can measure for are normal: Ammonia/Nitrite are zero, Nitrates are between 10 and 20ppm (depending on when I measure it), and pH was around 7.0. I tried measuring for PO4 but I don't trust that test kit, there was a leak in one of the bottles so I threw it away.

I use the two AC20 filters (you can kind of tell in the picture) and it provides a decent amount of surface agitation -- I've been using that setup for several months and fish never had a problem with it so I would assume my oxygenation was fine.

I haven't thought of measuring for voltage in the tank, I recently had a heater of the same brand fail on me in a different tank, so perhaps that's it. Nothing else electronic is touching the water so if there was a problem, the heater would be it. I'm not about to put in a different heater and throw some more fish in there -- how could I measure for something like that safely? I have a crappy $10 Voltmeter but I imagine I might need something a little more sophisticated...

[meegosh]

Any multimeter would work. I hold paperclips to the leads so I don't get anything in the tank. It is a long shot but you never know. I had a powerhead that was letting around 2 volts in the tank... luckily I found it when there was no fish in the tank. Stuck my hand in the tank one day and it felt like I was licking a 9v battery.