SUBSTRATE: Flourite+Gravel+Sand

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vcorey04

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
146
Location
Hollywood, CA
I bought Black Flourite to be a plant supplement mixed with gravel, but i was reading about Takasi Amano's new line of Aquascaping products while considering my purchase of sand.

for those unfamiliar with his work, GOOGLE IT!!!:D

Aqua Soil Amazonia

That link shows stuff called Aqua Soil Amazonia. I'm interested primarily in the feature of pH regulation...

I need sand, but i'm not sure if this soil, is what i should buy??:confused:

Since i am new to this, will some of you please cast an opinion on what you think about this?

My LFS will be carrying his line of products, but i'd rather find it myself online than pay their retail mark-up...;)

ALSO, does anyone know where i can get Malaysian Trumpeter Snails online?

i live in Southern California, so for those that felt the Earthquake and are familiar with a store in the area, that is helpful 411 as well.

v

:splat:

waiting to change my substrate is AGONIZING!
 
Aquasoil is an excellant Plant Substrate, but it is not sand. It's very fine grained and will break down over about a year (faster or slower depending on how often you move and rearrange your plants), at which point it will need to be replaced. I would not recommend mixing it with anything else as a result.

I'd just post a want ad in the Barter Trade forum. I'm sure another member would be willing to send you Malaysian Trumpet Snails for the price of shipping.
 
Aquasoil = Flourite????


which one is better??

which one lasts longer?


does flourite require sand?

will flourite lower my pH like the Aquasoil will?
 
haha.. thanks for the wonderful suggestion.

i'll try the petco down the street...

see, i've already purchased flourite and small gravel. i'm just looking for sand, and my LFS told me about a new sand they will be carrying that can lower the pH in my water...

major plus since my pH sits at 8.0-8.2... !
 
Aquasoil = Flourite????
which one is better??
which one lasts longer?
does flourite require sand?
will flourite lower my pH like the Aquasoil will?

While Aquasoil and Flourite are both plant substrates, they are not the same thing. Aquasoil provides better growth but has to be replaced after about a year. Flourite on the other hand is very very very dusty, but will last a long time. I don't think I've ever heard of it having to be replaced, just that after awhile it may need to be supplemented with plant tabs. Aquasoil and Flourite can both be used by themselves with nothing else as a part of the substrate (so can sand for that matter).
 
Keep in mind that when mixing substrates of various grain sizes they aren't going to stay mixed. Over time the smaller sized pieces will work to the bottom and the larger pieces will work to the top. Also you'll want to make sure that any specialty substrate is at least 50% of your substrate or you're wasting your money. Personally I would use a straight substrate instead of mixing, but a gravel and Flourite mix should be fine.
 
[ Also you'll want to make sure that any specialty substrate is at least 50% of your substrate or you're wasting your money. Personally I would use a straight substrate instead of mixing, but a gravel and Flourite mix should be fine.[/quote]

that's why i wanted to get sand to mix in with the flourite, and sprinkle small gravel on top...

will this work? or am i wasting time and money?
 
I think that if you mix sand with Flourite the sand will just fall through the spaces in between the Flourite and settle on the bottom of the tank. I just use straight Flourite without any other substrates.
 
I think that if you mix sand with Flourite the sand will just fall through the spaces in between the Flourite and settle on the bottom of the tank. I just use straight Flourite without any other substrates.

but, LFS guy and other people on this forum have said to mix it...

so confused. :bowl:

the idea of this pH lowering sand was appealing to me.

i realize i could go either way really, i'm going to wait until my LFS gets this sand in and compare it to the Amazonian i found today, whether or not it settles to the bottom is arbitrary to me really. i just want plants to grow in this 20 gal without using CO2....
 
Most people mix gravel or sand with Flourite (or other plant substrates) because the plant substrates are expensive. By mixing in sand or gravel you cut your expenses some but you also dilute the benefits of the plant substrate.

I think you may be confusing Laterite with Flourite. While Flourite is a substrate, Laterite is a substrate supplement that is mixed in with gravel or sand to provide nutrients. Laterite is much closer to root tabs in its purpose (though it's much messier).

No need to mix substrates to get your plants to grow. They'll grow in gravel, sand, or a specialty plant substrate as long as you provide for the rest of their needs. As long as you keep the lighting to medium or less, you won't be forced to use CO2. Just make sure to pick plants appropriate to your lighting.
 
The most common reason I know of why people mix a nutrient-rich plant substrate (fluorite, eco-complete, etc.) with a non-plant substrate (plain sand or plain gravel) would be in order to save $$$. I haven't checked prices lately but IIRC most of the plant substrates cost 3-4 times as much (per volume) as non-plant substrates. So yes, they are expensive.

Of course, the whole point of using plant substrates is that they reduce greatly or even eliminate entirely your need to supplement plant roots with root (fertilizer) tabs. So while you are spending more money up front, you are saving some money over the long haul.

Now, I suppose you might want to mix substrates simply for the visual effect. However, like others have pointed out, mixing substrates of different sizes (sand/small gravel/large gravel) tends to maybe look nice in the short term, but in the long term typically tends to fail pretty badly, as the differing sizes WILL eventually separate out. How quickly that happens depends upon how much distubring of the substrate happens, either from you, from fish, from snails (like MTS) burrowing, etc. If you are going to mix substrates, either for cost-saving reasons or for visual reasons, it is a much better idea to mix two substrates of the same size.

Among the plant substrates, ADA Aquasoil will lower your pH (but take seriously the warnings others have given about it needing to be replaced rather frequently). Many other plant substrates are pretty much pH neutral (fluorite, fluorite sand, eco-complete), and some provide slight alkaline buffering (onyx sand and onyx gravel). Something in the back of my brain is telling me either SeaChem or Carib-Sea also makes a few high-pH buffering plant substrates but...don't quote me on that.

There is really no reason to select a substrate that buffers either acid or alkaline unless there are some very specific creatures you are intending to keep in this tank. Most common aquarium fish are perfectly happy anywhere around neutral, whether the water is slightly acidic or slightly basic. The same is true of most aquarium plants. Attempting to adjust the pH in your tank (through any means) is always a risky business; while using a buffering substrate is far superior than using the pH-adjusting chemicals the pet stores try to sell you, it is still less than ideal.

Note that plant substrates come in lots of sizes and colors. There are sands in (at least) black and grey; and gravels in (at least) red, black, grey, and brown. Almost certainly even more than that, those are just the combos I can think of off the top of my head.

The two main planted substrate companies, and their listings of their substrates:

SeaChem Planted Tank Sands & Gravels (makers of Fluorite, Fluorite Sand, Onyx Gravel, and Onyx Sand)
CaribSea Planted Tank Gravels (makers of Eco-Complete and Fluoramax)

So in summary (since I was so wordy with all this!)...


  • it's best to use all one substrate rather than mixing substrates
  • if you feel you must mix substrates, it's best to mix same-sized ones (sand+sand) or (gravel+gravel), rather than different-sized ones
  • ADA Aquasoil needs to be replaced quite frequently, something not true of any other substrate out there. (Though in its favor, some ppl say it provides better growth than the other plant substrates too. I've never tried it so I can't comment on that.)
  • in general, it's safer to use a non-buffering (or very slightly buffering) substrate rather than one that strongly buffers, unless you really know what you're doing and have something very specific in mind you are going to keep in your aquarium
  • you can find nice plant substrates in a variety of colors, either in sands or in gravels

Good luck with everything. Let us know what you finally decide!
 
:Dwow. what amazing advice. thank you so much!:D

my main reason for lowering the pH is for optimal plant growth and a more habitable environment for new fish. i have read that most plants grow the best in the 7.4 to 7.6 range. (very similar to our human body)
will more plants help to lower my pH as well as the sand i'm interested in?

i'm not that anal about appearances so the layering of the substrates is not a concern of mine. i'm trying to get mine to be all one color (black) but any side effects, like air pockets, are a concern.

i'm mixed about the future of my tanks residents. plants and fish.
i know i'd like to grow Dwarf Riccia on some wood pieces, and also some red tiger lotus behind clusters of Phillippine Java Fern, but my LFS has a very poor selection of plants.
i have my idea of an aquascape, but seem to be limited to the LFS selection. do these contest winners order their plants from somewhere where they can pick and choose as they please online??

as for fish, i mostly have small fish right now. I'm interested in 2 large main fish: Blue Discus, Angelfish... but really, not too jazzed about either.

Every purchase revolves around my fish collectively, what works best with them. right now, the Ram is the star of the tank.

i am definitely gonna try to maintain 3 ottos in my tank, but understand they are difficult fish, as are most algae eaters it seems. i know with my clown loach's cancel the idea of shrimp, but also keep in mind my frogs.

gosh. seems so complicated at this point. :rolleyes:

if you have some suggestions for large fish that can do well in a high flow, 20 gallon tank that wont eat my galaxy rasboras, or bother my frogs please let me know.

also, do angel fish need to be kept in pairs?

and i still haven't found a female german ram for my tank.

...:::still looking:::...

AGAIN: thank you so much for taking time out of your day to help me with mine!


:multi:sending good karma to those that help! (y)
 
Angels don't need to be in pairs and a 20 is a bit small for one. A pearl gourami would be cool.

Plants can be found at many online vendors. Also check classifieds on various sites.
 
With what you're talking about, there's absolutely no reason to mess with your pH. I'd just leave it alone. Plants grow well in a large range of pH, and the slight difference probably wouldn't be noticable everything else being equal.

With one of your plant choices, I'd be more concerned about getting enough light over the aquarium, CO2 setup, and fertilizers. In order to grow Riccia submerged, it needs lots of light, good CO2 levels, and good fertilization. This is even more true of Dwarf Riccia which grows even slower. You'll also want to avoid Flourish Excel as many people have reported that Riccia tends to melt in reaction to it. If you don't want to mess with all of that, I'd look at using a moss instead of the Riccia.

The best sources for plants are online (through stores and aquarium boards) and if you're lucky you'll have a local fish club with other members interested in live plants. If you're even more lucky you'll have a local aquatic plant club. Swapping plants with other club members is a great way to increase your collections of interesting and often rare plants.
 
:( the most i can provide for CO2 levels is gas exchange at the surface, and my bubble wand creating extra friction and more surface area.

i may be bs'ing myself into believing that those are benefits...

ok.. no riccia... what kind of moss??? i have very good lighting. since i put the NOVA fixture on, my anubias has grown 3 new leaves!!:)

yea, wasn't excited about a greedy feeder like the angel fish, what about the discus? do they do better in pairS? is my tank too small for one? what about my little rasboras?

the pearl gourami seems to be a nice fish, but the shy deal.. i'm going to wait for a big fish..

i somewhat enjoy having all the little guys in there. it feels like something is missing..
 
Discus wont work either, rasboras are fine. Maybe a pair of dwarf cichlids as a centerpeice?

Java moss is the easy one, there is a bunch of mosses. I have xmas moss which I like very much.
 
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