Very Strange Fish-in "cycle"- 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrates- heavily planted

[Andysol]

Very Strange Fish-in "cycle"- 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrates- heavily planted

Having a very weird time cycling my 55 gallon planted tank at my office. Its very densely planted, and I have 8 full grown male adult Fathead Minnows (Pimephales promelas) as a fish cycle and feeding heavily twice daily. The strange thing is- I'm a week into it, and ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates are a 0. Testing correctly (in fact- I work at a toxicology lab and have access to actual machine run testing via EPA/ASTM methods).

My Red Flame Sword is having a little Melting due to the transplant I believe, and the fatheads are a little nippy with my Vals (and the vals have a little yellowing on some stems)- other than that, all the other plants look good.

My question is- are my plants soaking up the Ammonia so fast it doesn't even have the chance to break down into Nitrite/Nitrates yet?

My fear is that with no nitrates- are my plants going to suffer? Or are they getting enough from the potting soil?

I'm considering waiting until next Monday- and if all is 0/0/0 again- I will just start adding fish (maybe my 8 young hatchets, 8 cories, 5 otos, and take out the 8 full grown minnows). Help me plant experts.



Tank setup is as follows:
-55 gallons
-7.6 pH, moderate hardness
-77-78 Degrees
-substrate is 1.5" potting soil (put in unwashed), 1.5-2.5" sloped black beauty (washed)
-no C02 or ferts
-low light 64 watts (~1.1 watts/gallon)
-Canister Filter (Bioballs, filters, activated carbon)
-driftwood (leaching tannins w/ Peat in soil), rocks

-plants are:
2 Pigmy Chain Sword
2 Narrow Leaf Micro Swords
2 Crypt Wendtii "Red"
3 Java Ferns
2 small Tropica swords
1 Anubias nana
12 Italian vallisneria
4 Jungle Vallisneria
1 Anubias Frazeri
1 Red flame sword
1 Uruguayensis sword

1 Day:

1 Day Fish:

7 Days:

 

[Mumma.of.two]

It is very possible the plants are consuming the small amount of ammonia the fish are producing.
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_silent_cycling.php

 

[mfdrookie516]

Ammonia is NH3... N being key. It's a source of nitrogen.

 

[aqua_chem]

Also, ppm isn't a very good measurement system for thinking about concentrations. 1 ppm of ammonia is about 4 ppm of nitrate, so relatively small amounts of ammonia can act like larger concentrations of nitrate.


Although, it seems odd to me. None of your plants are particularly fast growers, and your light probably wouldn't be driving the nutrient uptake either.

 

[BBradbury]

Fish In Cycling

Hello Andy...

Pardon me if I'm missing something, but you don't have very many fish in your tank. It could be you have so much water to dilute the waste of the few fish you have that no cycling is taking place. It's like trying to cycle an olympic sized pool with a couple of Guppies.

If I had the tank, I'd just test the water for ammonia and nitrites for the new few days. If all the tests read "0" for these pollutants, then just add some more of your fish. Continue testing daily and when you get a trace of ammonia or nitrites in the water, just remove and replace 25 to 30 percent.

Follow these steps until the tank eventually cycles.

Just a thought.

B

 

[Andysol]

Although, it seems odd to me. None of your plants are particularly fast growers, and your light probably wouldn't be driving the nutrient uptake either.

Finally fixed my pics (2 are upside-down and won't upload correct even if I turn the original upside down. Sorry- but you can see the density at least).

I know- I'm perplexed. The low light and slow growing plants I picked we're part of my thought process for slow growing (less maintenance). I also have great filtration as I don't anticipate the plants uptaking everything. But my tank is very moderate/densely planted.

Bbrad- the fatheads are 2-3 inches per, so that's still a decent amount of fish- they should show something (even a nitrate?)

I'm considering just adding half my stock right off the bat- I was planning on stocking the tank with:
-5 otos
-8 marbed hatchet fish
-8 panda cories
-14 neon tetras
-7 dwarf gouramis
-2 Bolivian rams

What if I just stocked the cories, hatchets, and otos? (21 tiny young fish) and took out the larger 8 fathead minnows? See if that improves it and then I'll monitor my parameters daily? Or even add the neons as well?

The only thing I fear is the possibility my soil "burps" (has a spike).

 

[BBradbury]

Fish In Tank Cycling

Hello again Andy...

Ideally, you want hardy fish in the tank during this process. But, if you're going to monitor the water chemistry every day, then your fish will be fine. Just make sure to remove at least a quarter of the tank volume as soon as the tank test shows a trace of ammonia or nitrites.

Add just a few fish after several "0" tests. The process can take four to six weeks.

B

 

[LyndaB]

I wouldn't put the otos in until the tank is established. They can be very sensitive to water parameters.

 

[Andysol]

I wouldn't put the otos in until the tank is established. They can be very sensitive to water parameters.

That's my main question though. Is the tank already established? And if not, how can it get there with 0 ammonia/nitrite? I've never gone close to a week with no ammonia showing up. It's 20 inches of fish currently in a 55 gal.

 

[LyndaB]

As others have mentioned, it appears your bioload is too small due to the plants you have. It appears that adding fish is the only way to know. Add a few and monitor, add a few and monitor.

 

[Andysol]

As others have mentioned, it appears your bioload is too small due to the plants you have. It appears that adding fish is the only way to know. Add a few and monitor, add a few and monitor.

But if that's the case- then I could add real fish and do a silent cycle, correct? I definately don't want to add more flatheads (females would start mating and males would get territorial).

If my plants can handle the current bioload and I slowly add fish (4-6 every two weeks)- would I avoid any spikes? Thats my only concern at this point- a spike.

 

[LyndaB]

I don't understand what the term "silent cycle" means.

If it were me, I'd add the two gouramis.

Your plan is to have 7 dwarf gouramis in a 55 gallon? You are either very brave or have a death wish.

 

[Ziggs180]

From what I've heard, and that has been back up with Experience, Swords and Java Ferns just eat up Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates. I cycled my 29 Gallon with fish in it, and I rarely ever got ammonia parameters above .25 ppm because of all my plants.

And i have to second what LyndaB said, 2 DG's.

 

[Andysol]

Your plan is to have 7 dwarf gouramis in a 55 gallon? You are either very brave or have a death wish.

As heavily as I'm planted and with as many areas, I think 2 males and 5 females could work. I had 8 honeys. (3 males 5 females) in a 55 gallon a few years back and they thrived, mated, and schooled beautifully. No nipping. I know dwarfs are a little more of aholes than honeys, but I'm going to give them a chance- itd be gorgeous if it worked, and if it doesn't, they get moved.

 

[LyndaB]

I agree, it would make for a gorgeous tank. Good luck with it and please keep us posted on how that part of it works out, as well as your cycling issue.

 

[Andysol]

From what I've heard, and that has been back up with Experience, Swords and Java Ferns just eat up Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates. I cycled my 29 Gallon with fish in it, and I rarely ever got ammonia parameters above .25 ppm because of all my plants.

OK- I think that might decide it for me- I think I'll add 20+ fish- which will be Juvies- on Monday (because its at my office and I'll watch it that week) and take out the 8 Adult Fatheads. They are messy dudes anyway, nibble my plants, and jack my substrate up.

I agree, it would make for a gorgeous tank. Good luck with it and please keep us posted on how that part of it works out, as well as your cycling issue.

No doubt- I'll keep y'all updated good or bad.

 

[Bearchumjs]

Good luck with your tank! I was trying to view the photos but I guess they aren't working? What breed dwarf gourami's do you have?

 

[Andysol]

Good luck with your tank! I was trying to view the photos but I guess they aren't working? What breed dwarf gourami's do you have?

Just got the pics to work (FINALLY)! I felt like my parents there for a little bit....

1 Day:

1 Day Fish:

7 Days:

I'm planning on Fire Red Dwarfs. Love those- and the females are gorgeous too.

 

[Bearchumjs]

If those are the same as red flame dwarf gourami's then I know what you mean! I have a red flame and he is simply beautiful! He's having a hard time getting acclimated to his new home (because I had no idea what I was doing...) but he has started swimming around today!

Your aquarium is gorgeous! I'm looking forward to a picture of the gouramis when you add them.

Here's a picture of my little guy.

 

[Andysol]

Your aquarium is gorgeous! I'm looking forward to a picture of the gouramis when you add them.

Here's a picture of my little guy.

Awesome look. Once he gets more acclimated the blue will really pop out.

Thanks for the compliment on the tank- pretty yellow right now due to the peat in the soil (and boiled, but not soaked driftwood)- but if the fish don't care- I don't.