Well water as an oxidizer and plant fertilizer

[dwayne.aycock]

Greetings All, I recently had a major learning lesson (Thanks Rivercats) and a local water quality expert. I have a 75 gallon tank, and recently for a 135 gallon tank. My 135 gallon tank is almost up and ready to go once I get my 56W UV sterilizer. I has having many issues with my 75 gallon Amazon biotype tank. I did all of the normal tests (Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia and PH, and my water appeared to be fine, but I was losing about 1-3 fish per day. I tried everything to remedy the problem ( large water changes, toxin removing plants, ferts, prime, quick start, leaf zone, CO2 booster, black water extract, salt, and other mechanical, biological and chemical means to solve the problem. In the end found out that my house water was passing through a a water softener. I knew nothing about softened water being fatal to fish. With so many deaths I sought out an expert. Turns out that my water softener was the problem. Once I knew what the problem was, I got a 32 gallon trash can and filled it with 50% R/O w water and

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Mt tap water was treated with 2 carbon scrubbers. I sent my water sample to the water expert for analysis. Water was fine except for traces of chlorine and chloramine. Mt water expert (Joe) informed me that I could quickly and naturally remove trace elements of chlorine and chloramines with 2 cups of well water. Well water has particulates that render chlorine and chloramines harmless. Well water is an oxidizer. In addition, chlorine and chloramines can be removed with a vitamin C tablet, which is also an oxidizer. Once I tried this, I had no further need for PRIME or Tetra Safestart etc. I knew nothing about water conductivity and the need to keep it low. Since I have made these changes, I have had no further fish losses. Low tech answer to and otherwise complicated issue. Research water conductivity and aquarium fish and you will be amazed. It worked for me, especially with Discus and other challenging fish. Maybe this can help someone...I hope so....Dwayne

 

[Rivercats]

Interesting about the well water, never heard that one. All that matters is the fish problem is finally solved and you can concentrate on your new tank.

 

[aqua_chem]

The issue you were having is that the water softeners dramatically increase the salinity of your tanks. A water chemist probably wouldn't care about this as it is inconsequential to humans (drinking water is usually somewhat salted to increase taste).

As far as chlorine goes, you're off target. For one, chorine isn't removed by oxidation; chlorine IS an oxidizer. It's in fact a stronger oxidizer than vitamin C. Second, almost all water is actually an oxidizer. If well water dechlorinated water, than there would be chlorine in our tap, which is not the case.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Try going to aquaresearchcenter.com.....there is a giant disconnect between what you are saying and what I saw live and in person. truth is, once I found out what my problem was, I tried a test to see if it worked. I took a sample on my tap water which contained chlorine and chloramines. I added one cup of well water and tested again. Within 5 minutes, I had no chlorine or chloramines. I did not add anything to the tap water other that the well water. How do you explain the loss of chlorine and chloramines in less than 5 minutes?....Dwayne

 

[aqua_chem]

I'm not sure what you're referring to on that site, but I didn't see anything that even mentioned the topic at hand. As to your question, how much is a 'sample', and how were you measuring the chlorine?

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Joe goes into fine detail in his book about the myths and misconceptions about water quality and the marketing strategies used to make us think we need chemical means to treat aquarium water, as well as TDS and conductivity. Since I have been following his methods, I have not used any Prime or other chemicals, and as a result my fish losses have stopped, and my water quality has improved. My water is crystal clear and I am not using chemical means to get rid of chlorine and chloramines. I am using filtered tap water 50% and R/O water 50%, and vitamin C as a reduction agent. I have a well here in Florida that is 50 feet deep. The TDS in the well water have shown to work well at reducing Chlorine and Chloramines, with only 2 cups of well water per 50 gallons of purified water. Joe has 5 patents and has been a water quality expert for 30+ years. I am not disputing what has worked for you, but in my case...Joe's methods have proven successful.
Dwayne

 

[jetajockey]

I see that you keep referring to chlorine and chloramine together and I was wondering which one your water company utilizes? In this part of FL on the panhandle I think most systems still use chlorine, and in my particular area the content is so low that I can add water straight from tap without conditioner and have no ill effects on fish.

Did he explain what exactly in well water removes chloramines? Aeration and/or sun light deals with chlorine effectively.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

I am in Riverview....Hillsborough County where they use both. I know this from the county's annual water report. Concentrations are pretty high due to the high water pressure...80+ PSI.
Dwayne

 

[jetajockey]

So how does well water remove chloramines? I understand there is marketing hype for water conditioners, but there's marketing hype for anything that someone is selling. They still serve a purpose, even if well water does remove chloramines, it's not something we all have access to. And like I mentioned earlier, if we all had patience we could just 'age' chlorine (not chloramine) treated water and it wouldn't need any kind of additive at all.

I use sodium thiosulfate crystals diluted in water to remove chlorine and it only costs about 5 dollars per 50+ thousand gallons of water treated, so it's not exactly a dent in the pocket.

 

[Aqualady40]

So how does well water remove chloramines? I understand there is marketing hype for water conditioners, but there's marketing hype for anything that someone is selling. They still serve a purpose, even if well water does remove chloramines, it's not something we all have access to. And like I mentioned earlier, if we all had patience we could just 'age' chlorine (not chloramine) treated water and it wouldn't need any kind of additive at all.

I use sodium thiosulfate crystals diluted in water to remove chlorine and it only costs about 5 dollars per 50+ thousand gallons of water treated, so it's not exactly a dent in the pocket.

Hi, what exactly is sodium thiosulfate crystals and are you saying you use it as your dechlorinator?

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Exactly!!! You have found what works for you... I have found what works for me....MD Student. Emory University grad MD 1997. There is basic science and science that is found in niches. Niche science for some maybe not you. still... if it can help someone, isn't that why we are here in the first place? Some may have wells or other means to save money but also a hedge against chemical means to do everything. Before chemicals...things got done by other means...maybe even naturally.
Dwayne

 

[jetajockey]

Sodium thiosulfate is the active ingredient in most water dechlorinators. Sodium thiosulfate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Some good info on it's uses at the bottom.

There's several sources of it, pool supply stores may carry it, or you could order it from somewhere like angelsplus. Aquarium Water Conditioners

 

[jetajockey]

Exactly!!! You have found what works for you... I have found what works for me....MD Student. Emory University grad MD 1997. There is basic science and science that is found in niches. Niche science for some maybe not you. still... if it can help someone, isn't that why we are here in the first place? Some may have wells or other means to save money but also a hedge against chemical means to do everything. Before chemicals...things got done by other means...maybe even naturally.
Dwayne

Dwayne, I completely understand where you are coming from, it's always good to try to find new and useful methods to do things. It's one of my favorite things to do, in fact.

If you would find out why/how this process works it would make a lot more sense to us who are curious, otherwise it has little merit, even if it works great and is factual. Without evidence it'd end up like the great salt debate.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

In my part of Central Florida, there are dissovled solids in well water that bond to chlorine molecules and cause them to release their chlorine atoms in a gaseous form very rapidly. Our ground is based on limestone which I am sure has something to do with it. Maybe someone else has a limestone baserock in their area that may help them too. Sunlight is equally effective on chlorine, but i don't hear anyone arguing about that fact.
Dwayne

 

[aqua_chem]

In my part of Central Florida, there are dissovled solids in well water that bond to chlorine molecules and cause them to release their chlorine atoms in a gaseous form very rapidly. Our ground is based on limestone which I am sure has something to do with it. Maybe someone else has a limestone baserock in their area that may help them too. Sunlight is equally effective on chlorine, but i don't hear anyone arguing about that fact.
Dwayne

This is simply not true.

Limestone is just CaCO3, the basic components of pretty much everyone's water. Dissolved solids do not bind chlorine. Dissolved chlorine does not release single chlorine molecules short of extreme circumstances. Chlorine as we know it is in fact a dissolved gas the degasses on its own, usually in 24 hours or so.

Tap water is, essentially, well water with a few things added in it. You're not going to remove it by adding well water. If this were true, chlorine would deactivate upon being initially added to water. What you might be seeing is simply dilution of already present chlorine, not deactivation or neutralization.