Dwarf angels

[Scelzin1]

Hey guys. I have done plenty of research on this and it's not advised that dwarf angels be kept together because they can be aggressive in nature.

But I have seen it done before and they are my favorite fish and would love to give this a try.

I have a 75 gal fowlr tank with plenty of live rock for hiding places. They would be the last two fish I introduce. I would love to get a bi color angel and a flame angel. My question is...should I introduce both to the tank at the same time? Or should I get the bi color first and introduce him and let him get established in the tank first followed by the flame angel because flames can be even more aggressive?

That is my real question and what I can't seem to find consistent suggestions on. Some people say do the less aggressive (bi color) first to let him establish himself in the tank, and some people say do them together at the same time so that neither has established territory

Anyone ever done this that could give me advice? Or anyone have advice?

 

[VinnyLLU]

Try to put the flame in last. The bicolor can be tough to keep and will waste away if they are too stressed so I wouldn't risk putting it with a flame unless your tank is over 100 gallons. Try a coral beauty or flameback instead...

 

[Scelzin1]

A coral beauty with the flame angel? Aren't they too similar in color? And could really be aggressive?

 

[VinnyLLU]

This guy has a few dwarfs including a flame and bicolor, but as you can see his tank is enormous...

http://youtu.be/1GMGTfLIqus

 

[Scelzin1]

And I haven't purchased anything yet still inquiring and researching

 

[VinnyLLU]

They are similar in size not color. the cb is hardier than the bicolor in my opinion, and can hold its own if the flame starts to be a bully.

 

[woody390]

In my opinion I would add them at the same time so that the fish don't establish themselves in a territory before the other ones added it's the same as adding two of the same fish should always add them at the same time

 

[Scelzin1]

I believe you misunderstood my message. I know the bicolor and the coral beauty are not similar in color. But aren't the coral beauty and the flame to similar being purple and red respectively?

 

[Gregcoyote]

With dwarfs, the color seems to mean less than the body shape. In my 300 I have three dwarfs, all older than 10 years. A coral beauty, a black tail (blue line) and a flame. They do not like each other, but in a big enough tank they can coexist. If the pursued fish gets trapped, then there will be a death or at least a damaged fish. The flame is at the bottom of the pecking order, then the black tail and the boss is the 15 year old coral beauty.

 

[TheTodd]

The advice given to me by Andy Sager (who strikes me as knowing his stuff) was that with Angels, it is best to try to get them from different oceans and different families. I think all dwarfs are Centropyge, so you are limited to different oceans working better. For larger Angels, you have more of a mix, so if you went with two, you would want one Holacanthus plus a Pomacanthus or a Genicanthus. Put them in together and ideally have two different rock structures, so hopefully each picks one as a home.

I'm going to try two dwarfs and two large in my 240g.

 

[Gregcoyote]

My point is that many species of angels fight with each other and if there isn't a way for the prey fish to get away he will be killed.

 

[TheTodd]

Absolutely agree. As many holes , tunnels, etc as possible is almost mandatory. The idea of two separate structures seemed good, as they will hopefully each pick one and spend more time around it.

IMO, two Dwarfs in a. 75g is pushing it.

 

[Andy Sager]

With dwarfs, the color seems to mean less than the body shape. In my 300 I have three dwarfs, all older than 10 years. A coral beauty, a black tail (blue line) and a flame. They do not like each other, but in a big enough tank they can coexist. If the pursued fish gets trapped, then there will be a death or at least a damaged fish. The flame is at the bottom of the pecking order, then the black tail and the boss is the 15 year old coral beauty.

+1 to Body shape. If you notice, the "dwarf" Angels can really be broken down again into "Dwarfs" and "Pigmy" Angels. Having different types helps some as well. You want to try to keep the body shapes different, then the colors different for the best chance of a successful mix

The advice given to me by Andy Sager (who strikes me as knowing his stuff) was that with Angels, it is best to try to get them from different oceans and different families. I think all dwarfs are Centropyge, so you are limited to different oceans working better. For larger Angels, you have more of a mix, so if you went with two, you would want one Holacanthus plus a Pomacanthus or a Genicanthus. Put them in together and ideally have two different rock structures, so hopefully each picks one as a home.

I'm going to try two dwarfs and two large in my 240g.

Gee Thanks, Todd I'm touched. I sure hope I learned a few things in my 34 years of keeping marine fish. Remember, I started before there were even all glass aquariums

My point is that many species of angels fight with each other and if there isn't a way for the prey fish to get away he will be killed.

+ a whole bunch of 1s to this. SPACE or lack of it, kills more territorial fish than most anything else we do to them. By nature most Angels are found near heavily covered areas of the reef and always know they have a place to run and hide in so they protect them fiercely. Take this away from them in an aquarium and for sure, someone is going to swim in the wrong place a get a good BUTT Whipping. ( Another reason why Nano tanks don't make the best tanks for most fish.) So don't be sparse on the decor

Hope this helps

 

[DIZZLE808]

I had a lemon peel and a bi color angel both housed in my 55. The lemon peel had been in for a few months before I added the bi color and almost instantaneously the lemon peel attacked. Poor bi color didn't know what hit'em. This went on for a couple days then the constant bullying stopped. After that it was only when they got near each other did the lemon peel nip at him which most of the times was when I put an algae sheet in. He would still give the occasional chase but nothing like the first few days. In the end my bi color didn't make it. So IMO I'd say don't add the two unless you have a large enough system that they can stay away from each other. Just my 0.02

 

[Scelzin1]

It's a 75 gal tank with lots of caves and hiding places. My biggest concern/ question would actually be in quarantine stage? I only have a 20 Gal Long tank I use for quarantine (it's all I have room for and can afford right now). If I were to try this and introduce them at the same time as people suggested, what would be the best advice / tips for quarantining them together in a 20 L tank? For anyone who has ever had 2 dwarf angels at the same time what tips do you have ?

 

[Gregcoyote]

I would place a clear divider in the QT so they can see each other for a week or two.

 

[Scelzin1]

What can I use for a divider? Or where can I get one ?

 

[Gregcoyote]

You could use some plastic egg crate material.

 

[Andy Sager]

You could use some plastic egg crate material.

+1 to eggcrate. You can get it at any Home Depot or Lowe's in the ceiling tile department.

 

[Scelzin1]

And that has holes in it to keep water flowing between the compartments? Can I put live rock in my quarantine tank? Or am I not supposed to have anything porous in there in case some sort of ich or something breaks out? I've read differing opinions