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Old 10-13-2014, 01:58 AM   #1
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Orange Spotted Goby Died

This is my first saltwater tank, I have experience in freshwater but a noob to saltwater. I currently have a 55 Gallon fish only tank that I cycled for a little over a month using pure ammonia and live rock. I am using a canister filter ( I know its not advised) I bought 2 clowns and a orange spotted goby about 2 weeks ago, today I found my goby dead ;( The clowns seem fine any ideas what happened? Im feeding pellets in the morning and brine shrimp at night I always see the goby eating when I feed along with the clowns but he hid in the rocks unless it was feeding time. I would like to buy another one but want to make sure its safe for it first. I have a little over two inch live sand bed.

My tank parameters (tested everyday)
55 Gallons
Temp- 79F
Ph-8.2
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-0
Salinity Tested with hydrometer and refractometer 1.021

None of my parameters have changed at all since I finished cycling and added the live stock.



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Old 10-13-2014, 04:07 AM   #2
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Do you have pods in the tank?

How often do you do pwc, and how much each time?
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:14 AM   #3
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sorry I'm new what do you mean PODS? I do a 10% water change weekly tho all my parameters are always undetectable even at the end of the week. I fed them twice a day in the morning when i get home from work and at night before i leave for work, I feed them as much as they will eat in 3 or 4 min and the was always excess for the goby to eat ...tho he did eat the pellets and brine shrimp directly from the water. there was always some excess in the sand im sure he ate tho in never saw him personally sift the sand.... i always saw him eat from the water with the clowns. He did hide a lot ....thoughts?


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Old 10-13-2014, 09:21 AM   #4
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My guess is you have high nitrates, and aren't testing correctly. Feeding twice a day and a canister, I highly highly doubt that you have 0 nitrates (pretty much impossible IMHO).
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:59 AM   #5
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ehh I wouldnt say its impossible. lol I have had zero trates when running a canister and feeding too much. All down to how well you clean the filter and how often and how big your water changes are. I will say it does take a good amount of effort though.

My thoughts on this guy dying would be he wasnt happy with the new tank and stressed out too much. I cant count how many fish I have introduced and havent made it after a week two. Alot depends on the actual fish itself, some dont do stress well plus who knows when the fish store got him in and how soon the OP bought him. These fish are captured poorly and transported poorly so you never know.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:28 AM   #6
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For a tank that is still in it's infancy and a two week old purchase, I wouldn't stress too much about it. Sounds like you have the water quality under control, but still add livestock slowly as a fishless cycle starts the process, but it really needs livestock present for the BB to really get established well.

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My guess is you have high nitrates, and aren't testing correctly. Feeding twice a day and a canister, I highly highly doubt that you have 0 nitrates (pretty much impossible IMHO).
the nitrates would have to be astronomical to kill a fish that rapidly.
My tank hovers around 20-30 ppm of nitrate and has gotten as high as >100ppm once and I have not lost any critters due to high nitrate, even ones that are supposed to be very sensitive to nitrate, stars, shrimp, crabs, snails and they have all been doing great for going on 6-8 months.

and a reminder, it's the fish that are nitrate factories, not filters and any type of filter if not maintained properly will trap detritus and uneaten food and contribute to nitrates.
pre-filtering with socks or something and protein skimmers make a huge difference, but only if cleaned daily.

If the OP is not planning on keeping corals, he doesn't need to chase low nitrate numbers as hard.
I think that is one point that often is not made clear, while not perfect, fish can handle higher nitrates than corals can, yet it seems as if the majority of advice is made based on the idea of corals being present.

but I do agree there should be some nitrate detectable.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:56 AM   #7
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For a tank that is still in it's infancy and a two week old purchase, I wouldn't stress too much about it. Sounds like you have the water quality under control, but still add livestock slowly as a fishless cycle starts the process, but it really needs livestock present for the BB to really get established well.



the nitrates would have to be astronomical to kill a fish that rapidly.
My tank hovers around 20-30 ppm of nitrate and has gotten as high as >100ppm once and I have not lost any critters due to high nitrate, even ones that are supposed to be very sensitive to nitrate, stars, shrimp, crabs, snails and they have all been doing great for going on 6-8 months.

and a reminder, it's the fish that are nitrate factories, not filters and any type of filter if not maintained properly will trap detritus and uneaten food and contribute to nitrates.
pre-filtering with socks or something and protein skimmers make a huge difference, but only if cleaned daily.

If the OP is not planning on keeping corals, he doesn't need to chase low nitrate numbers as hard.
I think that is one point that often is not made clear, while not perfect, fish can handle higher nitrates than corals can, yet it seems as if the majority of advice is made based on the idea of corals being present.

but I do agree there should be some nitrate detectable.

A stressed fish and high nitrates for 2 weeks is enough to kill a fish IME.
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Old 10-13-2014, 01:57 PM   #8
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A stressed fish and high nitrates for 2 weeks is enough to kill a fish IME.
then we have had different experiences


but all that aside and making the assumption that the OP didn't mess up the nitrate test multiple times, I would look to another reason for the gobies demise, true?

Your assessment is based on your assumption that the OP has not been doing the testing correctly, of which no evidence has been given to support that assumption other than the test results themselves, which Carey confirmed that while not the norm, they are not unreasonable nor unbelievable.
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:32 PM   #9
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True I am assuming that the op is using an api nitrate test, which are notorious for false 0s. But are you really telling me that 0 nitrate after a first stocking of 3 fish is possible? Because I don't think it is, no offense intended against Carey, as I have no doubt that she could do it, but not after adding 3 fish at once to a brand new tank.

Op what's your wc schedule like? Size and frequency?
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:45 PM   #10
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as usual i agree 110% with big red.
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:11 PM   #11
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i test all my parameters three times in a row and they are all reading the same as i listed in the OP. I don't think I'm messing up the tests I have been testing for a while I have two freshwater tanks for over a year now. Im am however using API test kits for this... should I use something else? Yes I have a canister filter - Fluval 406, a large HOB filter and am running carbon bio balls filter sponges and clearmax. I have about 10 LBS of live rock that I cycled with the tank ( yes I'm working on adding 50LBS more) and no i don't intend to keep coral at all. It was brought up that it may have been stressed which I agree because he was very hard to net both at the fish store and after drip acclimation look about 10 min to net from the bucket. He mostly hid when it wasn't feeding time in the rock. I really appreciate all the feed back its awesome thanks everyone. As far as cleaning goes i have a meticulous cleaning habits although I'm bios haha. look forward to hearing back from everyone.... thanks again


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Old 10-13-2014, 04:25 PM   #12
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if i may kick in my 2 cents your salinity is in the safe range , but its on the low side most saltwater fish prefer 1.024 to 1.026 this could also be the issue
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:35 PM   #13
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if i may kick in my 2 cents your salinity is in the safe range , but its on the low side most saltwater fish prefer 1.024 to 1.026 this could also be the issue

Thank you for bringing that up I forgot to ask about that..... how do you recommend brining it up to the preferred levels. I have read to top evap with salt water, is that correct? If so should the salt mix be at the desired level or the current SG.


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Old 10-13-2014, 04:37 PM   #14
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PODS are little tiny living creatures, Tisbe Amphipod & Copepods, like little teardrop shaped crustaceans also as described by reefs2go "Many species are planktonic (drifting in sea waters), but more are benthic (living on the ocean floor"

A favorite food for the Gobies.
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:51 PM   #15
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PODS are little tiny living creatures, Tisbe Amphipod & Copepods, like little teardrop shaped crustaceans also as described by reefs2go "Many species are planktonic (drifting in sea waters), but more are benthic (living on the ocean floor"



A favorite food for the Gobies.

No I don't have any pods in my tank. I always say the goby eating both the pellets and the brine shrimp everyday I don't think he starved.


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Old 10-13-2014, 04:56 PM   #16
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No I don't have any pods in my tank. I always say the goby eating both the pellets and the brine shrimp everyday I don't think he starved.


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I lost my Goby after a month and a half and I always saw him eating all the foods I fed and I fed a couple times a day to make sure he was well fed. But he ate most all the ones I had and always my lfs were out of them so I just wondered if it was due to not having enough pods, maybe supplies something special for their health.
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:07 PM   #17
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Well after all the info andy281 has provided, it is most likely one of those mystery deaths and not necessarily any fault on his part.
I'm sure if asked "Have you ever had a fish die for no apparent reason" everyone in the room would raise their hands.


TIP:
next time when acclimating take a second bucket/container and put the net over the top and then just pour the acclimation bucket/new fish into the net, no fuss, no muss, and a lot less stress for both you and the fish.
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Old 10-13-2014, 05:17 PM   #18
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So what is your wc schedule? And did you ever get a nitrate spike after the cycle? And if so how high did it get?
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Old 10-13-2014, 06:41 PM   #19
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Well after all the info andy281 has provided, it is most likely one of those mystery deaths and not necessarily any fault on his part.
I'm sure if asked "Have you ever had a fish die for no apparent reason" everyone in the room would raise their hands.


TIP:
next time when acclimating take a second bucket/container and put the net over the top and then just pour the acclimation bucket/new fish into the net, no fuss, no muss, and a lot less stress for both you and the fish.

Great tip I feel kinda stupid for not thinking of that haha .... And yes there the possibility that it was just a fluke and it died I just really like gobies and don't want to kill another one if its a problem on my part. Like I stated earlier I only have 10 lbs of live rock I'm going to order dry rock and cure it then add it to the tank along with adding a protein skimmer should I hold off on replacing the goby or any other live stock until I add the rock and skimmer ?


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Old 10-13-2014, 06:48 PM   #20
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So what is your wc schedule? And did you ever get a nitrate spike after the cycle? And if so how high did it get?

I change 5 gallons weekly. I did get a huge nitrite spike around 80ppm I was dosing ammonia everyday to build a huge bio filter when it was all completed my tank could turn 5ppm of ammonia thru the cycle in less then 12 hrs. Before I added any live stock I did a 90% water change.


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