Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Community Forum > Member Introductions
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 09-20-2020, 02:16 PM   #1
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Ammonia poisoning?

Hi so Iíve recently added a new Oranda to my tank which caused a ammonia and nitrite spike, Iíve been testing the water every day and trying to get it balanced out. But this morning the new fish has developed large red patches at the base of dorsal fin which has gotten worse throughout the day. Iím unsure if this is burn caused by ammonia or if there is another problem at hand.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6850.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	131.5 KB
ID:	318148
__________________

__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
squirrilah fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,388
Can you get direct sunlight to your tank?
__________________

__________________
squirrilah fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 08:49 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrilah fish View Post
Can you get direct sunlight to your tank?
Unfortunately no, sunlight only hits the back of the house, the tank is at the front.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2020, 09:00 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
squirrilah fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,388
If the ammonia is spiking, that means your system doesnít have enough bacteria to process the ammonia to nitrate.
Thatís not uncommon if youíve added another fish, or overfeed.

Fish have immune systems to combat whatever is ailing them.

So maybe you just need to boost your beneficial bacteria.

Donít change the filters at all, gently stir the substrate, but donít clean or suction anything out, (itíll settle) and donít fead or add any food for at-least 2 days. (Fish will be fine)

You could turn the temperature up a degree or 2, and give it a day.

Monitor the ammonia, if itís still spiking, then youíll need to add some prime, and/or do a water change. But it might just be as simple as letting the system catch up.

Because youíve had the spike in ammonia, youíll want to watch for that spike in nitrates, the only way to remove nitrates is to do a water change, but you donít want to change more than 1/4-1/3rd of your water at once.

If the fish has an alignment. Give it time to heal. Sometimes it can take a month, but the important thing is to keep the water consistent and steady for your guy.

If youíre bacteria is still establishing, and thatís nitrates are spiking. You may need to do a small water change everyday for a week or two to let your system catch up, but it will catch up.
__________________
squirrilah fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 03:57 PM   #5
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
So I’ve checked the water today, there’s no ammonia but my nitrites were 20 ppm and nitrates 40ppm. I did a 25% WC. Stirred the substrate as you said. I added water conditioner and quick start which is meant to help boost beneficial bacteria. The fish seem more active since the drop in ammonia. But there is now some scale damage due to flashing.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 04:55 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Aiken Drum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 556
Are you sure your nitrite is 20ppm? Most tests only go up to 5ppm. I doubt anything would survive very long in 20ppm nitrite. Nitrite will do a lot more harm and a lot quicker than ammonia poisoning. I would be changing more than 25% water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiharls View Post
So Iíve checked the water today, thereís no ammonia but my nitrites were 20 ppm and nitrates 40ppm. I did a 25% WC. Stirred the substrate as you said. I added water conditioner and quick start which is meant to help boost beneficial bacteria. The fish seem more active since the drop in ammonia. But there is now some scale damage due to flashing.
__________________
Aiken Drum
Aiken Drum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 05:41 PM   #7
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Whoops I meant 2 ppm. I done 25% as many places different people on similar forums have advised I do 25% every day to try and build beneficial bacteria. It seems all the problems I am having are revolving around that.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 05:57 PM   #8
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Aiken Drum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 556
I wouldnt be happy with fish living in that high a nitrite concentration. 25% water change would only reduce 2ppm down to 1.5ppm. I would want it below 0.5ppm.

And from reading your other post, your nitrite went from 0.25ppm to 2ppm in a day? So the problem is that the nitrite is rising quicker than a 25% water change is removing it. If that trend continues I would be doing 50% water changes or 30% water changes twice daily.
__________________
Aiken Drum
Aiken Drum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2020, 06:15 PM   #9
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Ok that makes sense, Iíll test again tomorrow and do a 50% change. How long do you recommend to wait after a water change to test again? I am not able to test the waters in the morning due to work which stresses me out as Iím not home till like 6pm. I feel this is a long gap between testing and water changes, while my water is fluctuating as much as it is.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 06:48 AM   #10
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
squirrilah fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken Drum View Post
I wouldnt be happy with fish living in that high a nitrite concentration. 25% water change would only reduce 2ppm down to 1.5ppm. I would want it below 0.5ppm.

And from reading your other post, your nitrite went from 0.25ppm to 2ppm in a day? So the problem is that the nitrite is rising quicker than a 25% water change is removing it. If that trend continues I would be doing 50% water changes or 30% water changes twice daily.


Iím sorry, but I donít agree here. I donít think the tank is producing Nitrites faster than the system can handle,

He had an ammonia spike, and therefor will have a subsequent nitrite spike, because there isnít enough beneficial bacterial.

Itís unlikely the nitrites will continue to be as high once the Nitrogen cycle is caught up and established. What the spike tells me, is the ammonia is starting to be processed, and the nitrates are being processed.

You need both to cycle, because itís two processes involving different bacteria.

My concern is changing that much water that often is going to stress out the fish, and potentially do more harm than good.

Donít get me wrong, Nitrites are bad, but a stressed-out, already Iíll fish is just as bad.

I maintain, donít fead AT ALL, for 2-3 days, and feed very sparingly when necessary. Uneaten food will cause waste spikes also.

If youíre doing 25-30% a day, that will reduce those nitrites sufficiently, in a sufficient amount of time, as long as those beneficial bacteria are now doing their job.

If you decide to do double water changes to remove that nitrite faster, just be conscious of the fish, and do it in the most relaxed, calm, and gentle way possible.
__________________
squirrilah fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 08:14 AM   #11
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrilah fish View Post
Iím sorry, but I donít agree here. I donít think the tank is producing Nitrites faster than the system can handle,

He had an ammonia spike, and therefor will have a subsequent nitrite spike, because there isnít enough beneficial bacterial.

Itís unlikely the nitrites will continue to be as high once the Nitrogen cycle is caught up and established. What the spike tells me, is the ammonia is starting to be processed, and the nitrates are being processed.

You need both to cycle, because itís two processes involving different bacteria.

My concern is changing that much water that often is going to stress out the fish, and potentially do more harm than good.

Donít get me wrong, Nitrites are bad, but a stressed-out, already Iíll fish is just as bad.

I maintain, donít fead AT ALL, for 2-3 days, and feed very sparingly when necessary. Uneaten food will cause waste spikes also.

If youíre doing 25-30% a day, that will reduce those nitrites sufficiently, in a sufficient amount of time, as long as those beneficial bacteria are now doing their job.

If you decide to do double water changes to remove that nitrite faster, just be conscious of the fish, and do it in the most relaxed, calm, and gentle way possible.


Today is the second day of not feeding them, luckily my fish are confident and greedy which allows me to hand feed them the pellets. So no extra waste is lurking about, when I next feed them. Iím going to test the waters when Iím home from work, and depending on the results depends on if Iíll do a water change, as I agree with stressing fish out. I believe is causes then to be susceptible to more diseases and so on. Which is the last thing I need.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 12:13 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
okapizebra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,156
Large water changes are not stressful so long as the water is temperature matched. What is stressful is the fish's gills burning every time they breathe from high nitrites. If you see nitrite higher than .25 I would do a water change. If at 2.0, do a 75%. If 1.0 do a 50% etc. Nitrite bacteria seem to take longer to grow than the ones that eat ammonia, so I would not simply wait it out until they've caught up as it could be long enough for the nitrites to do damage to the fish.
__________________
okapizebra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 02:25 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
squirrilah fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,388
Ammonia poisoning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by okapizebra View Post
Large water changes are not stressful so long as the water is temperature matched. What is stressful is the fish's gills burning every time they breathe from high nitrites. If you see nitrite higher than .25 I would do a water change. If at 2.0, do a 75%. If 1.0 do a 50% etc. Nitrite bacteria seem to take longer to grow than the ones that eat ammonia, so I would not simply wait it out until they've caught up as it could be long enough for the nitrites to do damage to the fish.


Oh I got you, I must have missed where he said it was at .25, ya thats bad. Iíve never had that except when I was very new, and I stocked a tank practically the same day I set it up.

I donít like doing big water changes. But Iím also dealing with adjusting my waters PH, and hardness.
__________________
squirrilah fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 07:39 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrilah fish View Post
Oh I got you, I must have missed where he said it was at .25, ya thats bad. Iíve never had that except when I was very new, and I stocked a tank practically the same day I set it up.

I donít like doing big water changes. But Iím also dealing with adjusting my waters PH, and hardness.


So Iíve had the tank for nearly 2 months, itís an upgrade from a smaller tank. It was absolutely fine, itís now out of control since I got the new fish. I know thereís normally an imbalance when introducing a new fish. But this is wildly out of control. Iíve done a 70-80% water change today as I saw no change in the nitrite. Which is obviously not good. Iíve not fed them for 2 days. But the new fish is still pooing. I only ever hand feed my fish, and it has literally only had 2 small pellets a day (when I was feeding them). I donít like pouring food in as I canít keep track of the waste in my tank or how much theyíre eating, Iíve had so many swim bladder problems in the past due to over feeding. Iím stumped on whatís gone wrong, but it must have been something Iíve done and not realised. Unless I need a bigger filter.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2020, 10:50 PM   #15
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
squirrilah fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiharls View Post
So Iíve had the tank for nearly 2 months, itís an upgrade from a smaller tank. It was absolutely fine, itís now out of control since I got the new fish. I know thereís normally an imbalance when introducing a new fish. But this is wildly out of control. Iíve done a 70-80% water change today as I saw no change in the nitrite. Which is obviously not good. Iíve not fed them for 2 days. But the new fish is still pooing. I only ever hand feed my fish, and it has literally only had 2 small pellets a day (when I was feeding them). I donít like pouring food in as I canít keep track of the waste in my tank or how much theyíre eating, Iíve had so many swim bladder problems in the past due to over feeding. Iím stumped on whatís gone wrong, but it must have been something Iíve done and not realised. Unless I need a bigger filter.


It could be going through a secondary cycle, which is not uncommon.
__________________
squirrilah fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 01:05 AM   #16
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Aiken Drum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 556
From your other post, it looks like your tank is 100 litres and it says your issues started when you added the oranda goldfish, but its unclear if you added the goldfish to an already stocked tank. Are there other fish in the tank? The goldfish is pretty much on the limit for a 100 litre tank.

You have also mentioned your filter is a fluval U2. While a U2 is rated for 110 litres, goldfish are very messy and i would want to double the filter capacity for them. It could be that the U2 simply doesn't hold enough filter media to cope.
__________________
Aiken Drum
Aiken Drum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 04:25 AM   #17
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken Drum View Post
From your other post, it looks like your tank is 100 litres and it says your issues started when you added the oranda goldfish, but its unclear if you added the goldfish to an already stocked tank. Are there other fish in the tank? The goldfish is pretty much on the limit for a 100 litre tank.

You have also mentioned your filter is a fluval U2. While a U2 is rated for 110 litres, goldfish are very messy and i would want to double the filter capacity for them. It could be that the U2 simply doesn't hold enough filter media to cope.


So I got one oranda already in the tank, then added this new one. I asked the shop before buying another fish, and they said 2 would be ok, but he wouldnít recommend any more than that. This shop isnít just a pet store, its specifically for fish so I trusted what he said.

As for the filter, I agree with this, I originally had a 40L tank, with the u1 filter and felt this couldnít cope. And had to upgrade to the U2. Now I have a 100L I may need to upgrade the filter again.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 05:26 AM   #18
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Aiken Drum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 556
If you a planning on upgrading your filter, i would suggest a canister. A fluval 207 would give sufficient media capacity if you like the fluval brand or maybe an eheim classic 250 if you want to spend a little extra and have a little more media.

If you upgrade, run your new filter alongside your old filter for 2 or 3 weeks before removing the old one. This will enable your new filter to establish some beneficial bacteria before it is doing all the work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxiharls View Post
So I got one oranda already in the tank, then added this new one. I asked the shop before buying another fish, and they said 2 would be ok, but he wouldnít recommend any more than that. This shop isnít just a pet store, its specifically for fish so I trusted what he said.

As for the filter, I agree with this, I originally had a 40L tank, with the u1 filter and felt this couldnít cope. And had to upgrade to the U2. Now I have a 100L I may need to upgrade the filter again.
__________________
Aiken Drum
Aiken Drum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 01:19 PM   #19
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken Drum View Post
If you a planning on upgrading your filter, i would suggest a canister. A fluval 207 would give sufficient media capacity if you like the fluval brand or maybe an eheim classic 250 if you want to spend a little extra and have a little more media.

If you upgrade, run your new filter alongside your old filter for 2 or 3 weeks before removing the old one. This will enable your new filter to establish some beneficial bacteria before it is doing all the work.


Thank you for the advice, my dad used to have loads of tanks years back and he also recommended eheim. It was the only brand he used. Iíll investigate them.
__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2020, 03:22 PM   #20
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 14
So done another test, no change in nitrite and ammonia is now .25. I done 70-80% water change added nitrite remover, ammonia remover and beneficial bacteria. The redness on the fish has gone down significantly, but still flashing. Today is day 3 with no food, but fish are still pooing. Think theyíre eating the moss balls, as the poo is green.
__________________

__________________
Maxiharls is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ammonia, poisoning

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ammonia poisoning with 0PPM ammonia? Tholamew Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 4 07-26-2020 11:39 PM
Ammonia poisoning without ammonia? ErinMcG Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 34 03-04-2012 04:26 PM
Ammonia poisoning to newly added clownfish? duoc9119 Saltwater & Reef - Sick Fish or Coral 21 12-31-2010 09:14 PM
Ammonia Poisoning Aquarium Freak Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 8 02-12-2007 06:19 PM
Ammonia poisoning? mattmku Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 8 12-30-2004 08:14 AM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.