Canister filter: which is better, one big or two small?

[Guest]

So I am setting up my new 75 gallon bowfront tank. I plan on installing both an undergravel filter and use it in conjunction with a canister filter. I want to hook the canister filter to the undergravel filter, either a traditional flow pattern or perhaps a reverse flow (opinions on that appreciated, too).

Since the undergravel filter will have two riser tubes, now I am wondering. Which one of these would be best?

1. One canister filter, full capacity designed for my size tank.
2. Two canister filters, one for each riser tube, each a smaller capacity but together enough for my size tank.

Also, if I go with #1, should I make one riser tube the inflow and the other the outflow, or should I make a Y-connection and hook them together?

Thanks much!

 

[oscarbreeder]

Get a good canister like the Fluval 404 and totaly forget about the undergravel filter they are NO good.

 

[Guest]

I figure an undergravel in reverse flow would be beneficial in keeping the gravel from oversaturating. I am not particularly interested in actually using it as a filter, per se. Have anything else constructive to add, btw?

 

[oscarbreeder]

Yeah, why get nasty when someone tries to give you GOOD advice?

 

[Guest]

yeah, why get nasty when someone tries to give you GOOD advice?

Because what you gave was not advice, it was a lecture. Do not tell me something is NO good, then not back it up with reasons why. And do not say it is because they are no good as filters, because I told you I am not using it as one.

 

[Menagerie]

[center:c79fade8fa] Welcome to AA, Presence! [/center:c79fade8fa]

Oscarbreeder gave good advice. UFGs are more trouble than they are worth. By vacuuming the gravel, that will get out the excess food and waste. UGFs tend to allow guck to build up.

I don't understand:

I figure an undergravel in reverse flow would be beneficial in keeping the gravel from oversaturating.

What exactly is "oversaturating" the gravel?

A filter such as the Fluval 404 is plenty of filtration for a 75 gal tank. I have only one large canister filter on my African cichlid tank and have had no trouble with it. I vacuum the gravel while doing a 25% PWC weekly.

 

[vega]

What type of tank you are setting up? African or planted (heavy or not)?

From my exp, a UGF will break down every 8-9 months regardless its a std or reverse flow in a planted tank as you cannot clean the gravel properly due to the plant's root. Now i am using only a canister in the planted tank.

Btw i think you are very rude to someone whom are only trying to advise you.

 

[Guest]

What type of tank you are setting up? African or planted (heavy or not)?

From my exp, a UFG will break down every 8-9 months regardless its a std or reverse flow in a planted tank as you cannot clean the gravel properly due to the plant. Now i am using only a canister in the planted tank.

Btw i think you are very rude to someone whom are only trying to advise you.

Imitation plants all the way.
Like I said, I was not given advice, I was given a lecture. UGFs may be "NO GOOD," but at least you took the time to explain why. I suppose I should have lectured him/her on the poor grammar usage and run-on sentence?

 

[spongebob69]

First off, I would say it is poor form as a newbie to this site to insult veteran members who are trying to help you. THis will only hurt you in future requests for assistance.

Secondly, there is PLENTY of previous topics regarding the effectiveness or lack thereof of an UGF. My advice would be to do some research first, ask informed questions second.

BTW

Feel free to critique my grammar and spelling as you see fit.

 

[vega]

Best wish for you tank, anyway probabily this will be my last time trying to advise you, for fear i might "lecture" you, me also bad bad grammar and typo....

 

[Menagerie]

I suppose I should have lectured him/her on the poor grammar usage and run-on sentence?

No, the grammar police job belongs to An t-iasg and Bearfan is the spelling police. Don't worry, we have our bases covered

Okay, back to the true topic at hand: UGFs

The majority of members here do not like them--it's that simple. I've even seen a post from a member that had one and liked it--unitl they had to pull the entire tank apart to clean the thing. The UGF did not go back in the tank.

I am still unclear as to what "oversaturating" the gravel? Please explain that and I will tell you how to keep your gravel from "oversaturating."

What fish do you plan on keeping with the fake plants?

 

[oscarbreeder]

HEY!!!!!!!

Are you here for English class or help with your fish?
I dont care if you take my advice or not!
You want to kill fish thats up to you, but you just got your last help from me.

 

[Guest]

When I say "oversaturate" I am talking about with wastes. I just thought it might be easier to vacuum the gravel if there is a reverse current coming out of the gravel instead of being sucked in.

you just got your last help from me.

Waaa, like your "help" was of any use.

 

[Menagerie]

Enough bickering you two!!



The waste will get stuck under the UGF. I strongly recommend not using the UGF and using a gravel vacuum. The vacuums work great to get rid of the waste and excess food.

 

[Guest]

The waste will get stuck under the UGF. I strongly recommend not using the UGF and using a gravel vacuum. The vacuums work great to get rid of the waste and excess food.

What waste would you be speaking of if I were to hook the outflow of my canister filter to the UGF's pipes? Does waste still get under there?

 

[Canuckfan]

UGF's may not be the best filters out there , but they are not useless . They provide excellant biological filtration if maintained . The maintenance only involves the thorough churning/vacuming of the gravel every 4-5 weeks , which is something most people do anyways . As for the gunk under the plates , it is not toxic to your fish . By the time it gets there , the bacteria in the gravel have broken it down into mostly harmless waste . If you are that concerned about it , simply push the gravel away from the uptake tubes , remove the tubes , & stick a thin hose in it to vacumn the gunk from under the plates .

UGF's are not good for live plants unless you have java ferns , anubius , ect tied to rocks & driftwood . I also wouldn't use a UGF in a tank over 30 gallons . UGF's are also not good for cichlids , which are messy & like to dig in the gravel thereby rendering the UGF useless . Nor are they recommended for large messy fish like plecos , tinfoilbarbs , & oscars . They are perfectly fine for smaller fish like tetras , danios , rasboras , the smaller barbs , platys , ottos , cories , guppies , & for raising fry .

Like I've said before , I've had absolutely no problems with UGF's with smaller fish . I've had the so called "toxic gunk" come up into a tank with fry in it & suffered no ill effects . So UGF's aren't the best choice out there , but they certainly aren't the fishkillers that some of you out there portray them as . Have any of you actually used UGF's for more than 2 years ? I say 2 years because it probably takes that long for most people to get a good grounding in this hobby . Any deaths/problems during this period can probably be attributed to newbie mistakes , not to UGF's .

Just to be clear , if you are new to this hobby , or are setting up a new tank , buy a cannister or power filter , not a UGF . But UGF's are not as bad as some of you seem to believe they are .

 

[TankGirl]

I would not bother with a UGF, reverse flow or otherwise, because it is just another thing to deal with - I think you could get yourself a Rena Filstar XP3 and maybe supplement that with an AC or an Emperor (biowheels can be handy, and I like to overfiltrate). If you plan on keeping fake plants then keep your gravel bed shallow and you won't have a problem with detritus accumulating.

Your original question is a good one, though, and maybe 2 smallish canisters would be a good choice, as I have not thought about doing that. For your size tank you could certainly do that, maybe 2 XP2's and that's it. A single XP3 would work all by its lonesome if you did not have a terribly heavy fish load.

 

[Guest]

NOW I am getting some great, and constructive, advice! A pity a few had to try to spoil this place for me right off the bat.

Today I purchased a single Fluval 404 and figure I will just plan on using that for all my filtration.

 

[BrianNY]

I'm beginning to find this thread very interesting , and for a number of reasons.

Presence, I think I understand what you're trying to do by using a cannister in conjunction with a UGF. In either standard or reverse flow, you would have the water column moving through the gravel bed. The thinking being that you'll keep the gravel clean if that's what you mean by oversaturating. The concept is logical but here's why it won't work.

1. Connecting the cannister intake to the riser tube - A UGF is designed to have the gravel do the mechinacal filtration. It's more or less effective depending on gravel size. All of the detritus collects and remains under the filter plate where it remains inert and harmless for the most part. No cannister is designed to deal with the amount of waste you'd be putting into it. It would quickly become clogged and you'd be dealing with much more maintenance on the cannister than you'd want.

2. Connecting the cannister outflow to the riser tube - All of this matter that's designed to remain under the filter plate will be forced back up through the gravel. Your tank will more than likely become a cloudy nightmare.

Canuckfan is correct. UGFs are not the deathtrap of the aquarium world some make it out to be. In fact, at one time it was considered an awesome technology. But with the way some HOBs and cannisters are designed today, I can't think of a good reason to use a UGF.

Finally, if you and oscarbreeder read this - Part of the problem with the written word is that you can't hear someones tone of voice or see their expression. The manner in which someone writes is open to interpretation, and that can easily be misinterpreted. Oscarbreeder has been on this forum for a long time and is a valuable contributer. I'd like you to appreciate how time consuming it is to give a detailed explaination to many of the questions asked here. Noone is paid to be here and we do it because we enjoy it and want to help others. Sometimes it's just easier to give brief answers to complex questions.

Now it's JMO but your response to him had a rather sarcastic tone. That may be just the way you speak, I really don't know. I think you'd have been better served (if you didn't like his answer), to ask him simply to explain it further. I'm sure it would have been done without the "flaming".

 

[Guest]

Good purchase on the Fluval, Presence. I think you'll be satisfied with your decision.

We may now resume back to our happy little community. Don't make me get my belt out. Daddy Troll has spoken. LOL......(just trying to lighten up the atmoshpere).

Bring on the grammer and spelling police. I don't need no stinckin speEl check