Question about the watts per gallon formula

[mgamer20o0]

1st of The question was not answered

it was answered. all i can see is what is typed out here.

once again ill point it out.... the question as i see it was.

when calculating WPG do you use incandescent wattage or fluorescent wattage?

i answered fluorescent.

if WPG is no longer the rule of thumb then how does one determine what's needed?

this is a different question then what was asked. like i said up there when you tell everyone what you are trying to do people would be able to better understand what you want and answer your questions you want answered but havent asked. with out the info we can only answer what you have answered.

HN and i were both quickly to point out it isnt simple. he said to pm him and explain what you really want so he can answer i said make a new thread with all the info so someone can help you.

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by Innovator

I haven't read the entire thread, but will hopefully not repeat what others have already stated. Originally the rule was created to include all lighting varieties; however, the 'watts per gallon' rule no longer applies because it does not account for intensity, depth penetration, nor indicative of PAR. Majority of the saltwater habits veer towards reef-keeping and bulbs that emit a higher PAR (photosynthetically active radiation), which corals utilize for photosynthesis. Different manufactured bulbs have different specifications and numbers can vary depending on the depth penetration and other "natural" occurrences within our systems, but also vary between lighting fixtures (usually point source or spotlight affect vs. elongate) and very importantly the reflectors.

This is rather "dumbed" down and if you need any help in which to choose (yes, the choices are maddening!) feel free to ask away. Do you wish to keep corals in the future and if so, what are you leaning towards?

Thank you innovator, I'm starting a 120 FOWLR and want to go to a reef down the road. I want to prep the hood for the present and the future. To many choices and to much money for some of those lights.

[FishEggs]

Originally Posted by InfernoST

Not intending to be rude, but am getting extremely frustrated.

that is very easy to do when it comes to lighting.


here is what to do.

if you know what type of corals you are interested in you should post a question in the saltwater forum about what type of light and how much you will need for those corals. again be as detailed as you can as to the type of set up you are putting together including the types of fish, corals, inverts and equipment you will want. you will get better more direct answers with more info provided.

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by mgamer20o0

it was answered. all i can see is what is typed out here.

once again ill point it out.... the question as i see it was.

when calculating WPG do you use incandescent wattage or fluorescent wattage?

i answered fluorescent.


this is a different question then what was asked. like i said up there when you tell everyone what you are trying to do people would be able to better understand what you want and answer your questions you want answered but havent asked. with out the info we can only answer what you have answered.


HN and i were both quickly to point out it isnt simple. he said to pm him and explain what you really want so he can answer i said make a new thread with all the info so someone can help you.

My intentions are on an earlier page, however I just started cycling a 120gal FOWLR and down the road get some corals. I want to prepare the hood I'm going to build with all of the hardware needed for the present and the future.
If some one would of said that WPG is no longer used this thread would be over but it is what it is.

[mgamer20o0]

The WPG formula is worth just as much as the inch per gallon IMO. Nothing. There are no "types" of wattage.

the wpg rule is pretty much out dated and was a general rule of thumb with the t10 normal output fluorescent bulb. todays technological advances in lighting renders the old wpg rule useless especially with saltwater.

Originally the rule was created to include all lighting varieties; however, the 'watts per gallon' rule no longer applies because it does not account for intensity, depth penetration, nor indicative of PAR.

..

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by FishEggs

that is very easy to do when it comes to lighting.


here is what to do.

if you know what type of corals you are interested in you should post a question in the saltwater forum about what type of light and how much you will need for those corals. again be as detailed as you can as to the type of set up you are putting together including the types of fish, corals, inverts and equipment you will want. you will get better more direct answers with more info provided.

Will do, Thanks for the advice. I will put together a list together and post it over there.

[thincat]

Originally Posted by InfernoST

If wattage doesn't matter then i can get a 50 watt spectrum correct lamp???? That's insanity and most definitely not correct, it's combination of both not one being more important then the other.

Keith, the deeper the tank the more wattage you need to get the light down to the corals (Penetration). If you want to get that deep into it buy yourself a light meter and measure it yourself. Then you would know the correct lighting for your setup. We can only give general information here.

[HN1]

This thread needs to die until tomorrow at least. I've been in touch with him and things are being taken a bit too personally in the thread. Lighting sucks afterall. lol

[thincat]

Keith loves to get into the nitty gritty. You got to love him for that......
I'm sure he means well.

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by FishKeeper

Well, you want info, won't say what exactually you is looking for, then get mad because you aren't getting an answer about a questions you didn't ask to get the answer you are looking for. Then you have to interject that you are an electrical engineer with all this experience.

What exactually do you want to know? The original question has been answered.

EDIT: What I posted was kinda rude. What exactually are you looking for in an answer? The watts per gallon rule means as much as the inch per gallon rule. I would be more then happy to help, I just don't know exactually what you want to know.

Sorry about that, Calculating lighting for an office building is super easy but having to calculate an adequate amount of light necessary to support life is another story and is something I'm not familiar with (Frustration is setting in). What I'm looking to do is setup my hood with the proper amount of lighting for my FOWLR 120 Gal (1st SW tank and Cycking) with the capacity to support corals down the road. Anything you can help me with is greatly appreciated.

[InfernoST]

Originally Posted by thincat

Keith, the deeper the tank the more wattage you need to get the light down to the corals (Penetration). If you want to get that deep into it buy yourself a light meter and measure it yourself. Then you would know the correct lighting for your setup. We can only give general information here.

Good idea but where do you get a waterproof meter?

[ccCapt]

WPG was used when I started up my system 20+ yrs ago when the only types of lighting used was T12 normal output fluorescent or metal halide. Power compacts were just starting to come out and there were no T5HO's. Back then, if you wanted to keep soft corals/low light corals, you shot for 3-6 wpg using normal output fluorescent or pc's if you could find them. If you wanted to keep high light demanding corals, you used metal halide. Keep in mind, what makes T5HO's so good is the use of high quality reflectors. There is nothing special about the bulbs themselves. T5HO's without quality reflectors are no better than VHO (which do not have any good reflectors designed for them) and only slightly better than reg. fluorescent.

Originally Posted by InfernoST

What I'm looking to do is setup my hood with the proper amount of lighting for my FOWLR 120 Gal (1st SW tank and Cycking) with the capacity to support corals down the road. Anything you can help me with is greatly appreciated.

If you want to buy lights 1 time, get metal halides. You will be able to keep any corals you want in the tank at any depth. You can also use T5HO's, but a 120 is deep and you won't get the penetration like MH. You would still be able to keep any coral you want, but high light demanding corals will need to be kept in the upper levels.

Originally Posted by InfernoST

Good idea but where do you get a waterproof meter?

Apogee Quantum light meters are hand held meters that measure PPFD (Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density). The probe is waterproof and that is what is put in the water. The meter itself stays outside the tank.

[Kurt_Nelson]

Originally Posted by ccCapt

...
If you want to buy lights 1 time, get metal halides..

Beat me to it. If you don't know what you want to keep, and want to be prepared for anything, metal halides with supplementary actinics will work for a lifetime.

[FishEggs]

the next question would be, what size/wattage should they be?

[thincat]

For a 120g you would need two 250watt MH lamps with two actinic t-5's ( are those 90w bulbs) to mellow the color out a bit. Adds the blue spectrum light.

[CaptainAhab]

So the assumption is 48/24/25 ? Width and depth do play a factor here correct?

[thincat]

Yes, no one gave hard #'s so it's a generalization at best.

[ccCapt]

If you plan on getting high quality Lumenarc/Lumenbright type reflectors, you can get away with 2x175w. If you plan on plain parabolic/parallel reflectors, your better off with 2x250w.

[InfernoST]

I must apologize to all of you, I didn't mean to be rude or offend anyone. I thank all of you for sticking in there and helping me out, I new the lighting was going to be complicated but I didn't expect it to be this difficult, it's extremely frustrating for me at this point. Sorry. The dimensions of the tank are 60 X 18 X 26, hopefully with this info you can tell me what i need.

One more question, Is it possible to have to much lighting?

[melosu58]

Yes it is possible to have too much light. Some corals cant handle too much high intensity light. Hang in there Keith. I know lighting get tough sometimes. Just remember as was mentioned that it`s not about wpg anymore. With todays technology it`s about par and intensity. I agree that if you only want to deal with it once then get the MH`s or at least the T5HO`s with individual reflectors. Like I said hang in there . We will get you through this.