The "Bubble Curtain Under Filter Intake" Factor...

[ArtesiaWells]

Okay, so I think we may have covered this before -- but now that the noise being generated by my AquaClear 110 from the bubbles being sucked up by its intake beneath it has gotten progressively (seemingly) worse and is now being accompanied by a rough "unseating/banging" noise indicating to me the impeller is being ready to be unseated from all the cavitation, I am wondering if I should yet attempt again moving the bars away from the intake(s)...

I tried this once before but to no avail because my 60 gallon Marineland is so NARROW -- its dimensions give more water in the TALLER sense than the long, so the tank itself in width isn't that great. This lead to me pulling the 18 inch bubble bars -- which are just about against the back glass -- out a bit to escape being sucked into the 110's intake (the Aqueon isn't affected by the bars)...but this ended up looking awful because it seemed like the bubble wall was erupting from the middle of the tank and looked kind of strange...

Thus, here I am again with the dilemma; the "box of rocks" noise the filter is making as it slices up the bubbles from the bar beneath it is getting truly annoying now, so I'd like to know if I SHOULD at this point attempt to reposition the bars yet again, pulling them away from the intake to the point the bubbles won't be sucked into it...and I'm wondering if constant bubble intake into the filter is REALLY going to ruin the AquaClear over time, or if this is merely an online rumor...

Any thoughts before I begin?

[Ian086]

You could try putting a prefilter sponge on the aquaclear. This should stop most of the bubbles being sucked up. The downside is it involves clean the sponge more because all the larger waste will be stuck to it. Also you could put some polyfil inside the intake pipe. Again this would require regular cleaning/changing.
For the impella, i'm sure you have heard/done this already but you could grease the impella....

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Ian086

You could try putting a prefilter sponge on the aquaclear. This should stop most of the bubbles being sucked up. The downside is it involves clean the sponge more because all the larger waste will be stuck to it. Also you could put some polyfil inside the intake pipe. Again this would require regular cleaning/changing.
For the impella, i'm sure you have heard/done this already but you could grease the impella....

Thanks Ian -- appreciate your input in the shadow of thread-derailing rhetoric! I had certain members here on "Ignore" but unfortunately you can see the commentary before you offically log in...

I was considering the prefilter angle -- but do you really think most of them would be stopped (the bubbles that is) from being sucked through the intake? Do you have any recommendations on ones to consider buying?

[Ian086]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

Thanks Ian -- appreciate your input in the shadow of thread-derailing rhetoric! I had certain members here on "Ignore" but unfortunately you can see the commentary before you offically log in...

I was considering the prefilter angle -- but do you really think most of them would be stopped (the bubbles that is) from being sucked through the intake? Do you have any recommendations on ones to consider buying?

I definitely think it's worth a try. They are really cheap, so you don't have that much to lose!!. I use them on my fry tank but when I change the water, I notice the tiny bubbles you get after changing the water, stick to the sponge and don't seem to get sucked in, despite it being a pretty strong HOB filter. I think it could work in your case or at least help a lot. Have a quick look on Amazon/Ebay or even your LFS should have them. They are only a few dollars. Mine is a fluval. The sponge is about 1cm thick. I'm sure you could other brands that are even thicker which would make it even harder for the bubbles to penetrate.
pre filter sponge | eBay

Amazon.com: pre filter sponge

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Ian086

I definitely think it's worth a try. They are really cheap, so you don't have that much to lose!!. I use them on my fry tank but when I change the water, I notice the tiny bubbles you get after changing the water, stick to the sponge and don't seem to get sucked in, despite it being a pretty strong HOB filter. I think it could work in your case or at least help a lot. Have a quick look on Amazon/Ebay or even your LFS should have them. They are only a few dollars. Mine is a fluval. The sponge is about 1cm thick. I'm sure you could other brands that are even thicker which would make it even harder for the bubbles to penetrate.
pre filter sponge | eBay

Amazon.com: pre filter sponge

Hey man, thanks a lot for the feedback and links! Much appreciated; I am going to reply to your private message now...

Is there anything else -- short of me having to move the bubble bar -- you can think of to stop the bubbles from being sucked into the intake?

[Ian086]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

Hey man, thanks a lot for the feedback and links! Much appreciated; I am going to reply to your private message now...

Is there anything else -- short of me having to move the bubble bar -- you can think of to stop the bubbles from being sucked into the intake?

It's late over here and my brain is starting to shut down, not that it ever is switched on...haha. Any chance of a picture???

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Ian086

It's late over here and my brain is starting to shut down, not that it ever is switched on...haha. Any chance of a picture???

LOL...

Unfortunately, I don't have a picture, but the bubbles are pretty much, if you can imagine this, being continuously sucked into the AquaClear's intake, thus making a horrible grinding, "box of rocks" noise that sounds like it's about to affect the impeller...

[Ian086]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

LOL...

Unfortunately, I don't have a picture, but the bubbles are pretty much, if you can imagine this, being continuously sucked into the AquaClear's intake, thus making a horrible grinding, "box of rocks" noise that sounds like it's about to affect the impeller...

So does it stop if you switch off the bubbles??

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Ian086

So does it stop if you switch off the bubbles??

Oh, yes -- that's another indication that it's the bubbles causing the noise/cavitation...

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Ian086

I definitely think it's worth a try. They are really cheap, so you don't have that much to lose!!. I use them on my fry tank but when I change the water, I notice the tiny bubbles you get after changing the water, stick to the sponge and don't seem to get sucked in, despite it being a pretty strong HOB filter. I think it could work in your case or at least help a lot. Have a quick look on Amazon/Ebay or even your LFS should have them. They are only a few dollars. Mine is a fluval. The sponge is about 1cm thick. I'm sure you could other brands that are even thicker which would make it even harder for the bubbles to penetrate.
pre filter sponge | eBay

Amazon.com: pre filter sponge

First, thank you moderators for "cleaning up" this thread...

Second -- Ian, I wanted to let you know that I checked out those prefilters you linked above, and I'm intrigued...the thing is, do you know if any of them will fit the AquaClear 110's intake strainer?

[Ian086]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

First, thank you moderators for "cleaning up" this thread...

Second -- Ian, I wanted to let you know that I checked out those prefilters you linked above, and I'm intrigued...the thing is, do you know if any of them will fit the AquaClear 110's intake strainer?

Yeah I reckon it will fit. I have a fairly thick intake and it stretches over that. It is a bit of a stretch but it does fit. You want one that has a big hole in the middle, if that makes sense...haha. If you have a local fish store that sells them, you could always bring your intake strainer or the bottom half of it, with you and try it on. The fluval one comes in a non-sealed package, so you could try before you buy.....

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Ian086

Yeah I reckon it will fit. I have a fairly thick intake and it stretches over that. It is a bit of a stretch but it does fit. You want one that has a big hole in the middle, if that makes sense...haha. If you have a local fish store that sells them, you could always bring your intake strainer or the bottom half of it, with you and try it on. The fluval one comes in a non-sealed package, so you could try before you buy.....

I see; thank you for the info...I ask because I never used a prefilter before...

Here's another thing, though: I know the prefilter will cause the larger debris like uneaten food floating by or fish waste to be "caught" on it and not go up the intake stem, but do you really think this system will also allow for the bubbles to stop being caught up by it? Further, will the filter actually STILL be filtering with the sponge around the intake -- I mean, water will still PASS through it, right?

[Ian086]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

I see; thank you for the info...I ask because I never used a prefilter before...

Here's another thing, though: I know the prefilter will cause the larger debris like uneaten food floating by or fish waste to be "caught" on it and not go up the intake stem, but do you really think this system will also allow for the bubbles to stop being caught up by it? Further, will the filter actually STILL be filtering with the sponge around the intake -- I mean, water will still PASS through it, right?

You could cut down the food a bit and/or turn off your filters when feeding. When I am feeding, my aim is always not to allow any food to hit the substrate, unless you have bottom feeders of course!!. Feed tiny amounts and as soon as they show signs of stopping you stop feeding. The poop will of course get stuck, but less food, will mean less poop. If you gently remove the intake, the sponge can be rinsed in some used take water. I clean the one in my guppy fry tank, who are almost adults now, about every three days. I just rinse it in normal warm water from the tap but you can use old tank water if your worried. Your BB is inside the filter, so I don't worry about any on the prefilter. The bubbles might not be completely stopped from going into the intake but should be significantly reduced. It's a cheap option and could be a cheap solution. The water will still pass through no problem. It will still be biologically filtered, no issue there. It is definitely worth a shot and can do no harm......

[ArtesiaWells]

Thanks man.

[Vash]

I've cut canister hose (Slit one side to snap over offending section) I had left over to fit over the section of the airstone when I've had that problem. It saved on having to keep cleaning the sponge over the intake. You really do need to correct that as the cavitation over time will eat through the fins on the impeller.

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Vash

I've cut canister hose (Slit one side to snap over offending section) I had left over to fit over the section of the airstone when I've had that problem. It saved on having to keep cleaning the sponge over the intake. You really do need to correct that as the cavitation over time will eat through the fins on the impeller.

Thanks, Vash.

What concerns me most about your statements is that you seem to be confident that the cavitation from the bubbles being sucked into the filter will eventually eat through the impeller's fins; do you really think this will happen, and if so, am I okay with merely trying to move the bar away from the intake once again?

[Vash]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

Thanks, Vash.

What concerns me most about your statements is that you seem to be confident that the cavitation from the bubbles being sucked into the filter will eventually eat through the impeller's fins; do you really think this will happen, and if so, am I okay with merely trying to move the bar away from the intake once again?

Well I know that bubble cavitation will eat through the steel propeller of a ship. That being the case I'm pretty sure that they will also eat through plastic in a confined space such as the tube that houses it over time. That noise you are hearing is the result of the shockwave (albeit small) that the air vs plastic is generating. That must cause damage over time.

[ArtesiaWells]

Originally Posted by Vash

Well I know that bubble cavitation will eat through the steel propeller of a ship.

Seriously?

That being the case I'm pretty sure that they will also eat through plastic in a confined space such as the tube that houses it over time. That noise you are hearing is the result of the shockwave (albeit small) that the air vs plastic is generating. That must cause damage over time.

Well, if that's true what you say above then of course it will damage plastic; can I try moving the bar forward a bit away from the intake vacuum?

[Vash]

Originally Posted by ArtesiaWells

Seriously?



Well, if that's true what you say above then of course it will damage plastic; can I try moving the bar forward a bit away from the intake vacuum?

The problem with that setup might be one of circulation. Any debris would need to enter from the sides and rear only as it wouldn't make it through the wall of air. That was why I went with the air wall in the first place. I shut down the filters when I feed but don't like how the food tends to sink or float with little distribution without the current. That bubble wall tends to keep the water flowing and the debris doesn't build up along the back wall between the two intakes I have either. I agree that it looks great having the solid line of bubbles but the noise along with the damage done had me slip the air condom on the stone I was using at that time. I ended up changing that plan when I added the 400 bio-wheel tank hanger I had 2 intakes to deal with so I ditched one stone that never worked well and went with 1 24 inch between the 2 intakes instead of the almost 48 inches of airwall I had before. I'm going to get rid of the stone altogether and go with a plastic wall tube though.

When I was a kid in the 70's I always made them myself out of air tubing and a hot needle, wish I had patented that idea at the time hehehe