total pump head pressure question

[02tts]

Need to know if I'm doing this right when trying to calculate total head pressure:

1. from pump outlet to return on left side is 2ft HORIZONTAL and 6ft VERTICAL
2. from pump outlet to return on right side if 6ft HORIZONTAL and 3ft VERTICAL

Based on the above and not accounting for any 45 degrees (which I have two), no 90 degrees, etc...just based on the above...would my total head pressure be:

1. 6ft
2. 9ft
3. 17ft

Trying to side this accordingly for new pump and I'm not sure if I should be counting the horizontals and also whether I should be counting BOTH sides of my return or just the one...?

thanks.

 

[ccCapt]

You count every foot of line from the pump to the tank.

Here's the RC head loss calculator. It works great.

 

[02tts]

not sure I understand then....so count everything...ok...that being said, according to this calculator is says my total losses are 24.62, which I don't undertand since I love have 17ft of total tubing...again, not counting anything else...so using all 0's everyone on that page and just inputting horizontal and vertical gives me 24...

does that mean that if I'm looking to provide 1200GPH to the tank, I have to look at a pump that can provide 1200GPH at 24ft head....?!

24ft just seems outrageous...given that I have a max of 17ft...

sorry, I just don't understand this head pressure calculation...

 

[02tts]

that was specifying a blueline 100HD

 

[Ziggy953]

Did you select the pump you are using currently or the pump you want to get? The Blueline HD is the default pump selected by the calculator because it is the first one on the list.

When you calculate you need to make sure to indicate your pipe size horizontal and vertical pipe lengths as well as all elbows.

 

[ccCapt]

There is a difference in head loss when the pipe is running horizontal as opposed to verticle. Elbo's and tee's also add to the loss.
Do you plan on using the Blueline pump? If not, there are a bunch of pumps there. Pick what you will use.
Just remember, if your overflow can only handle 600 gph, don't get a 1200 gph pump. You must match the pump with the capacity of your overflow.

 

[02tts]

Well I was looking to get a blueline hd 100 which just happens to be the default selection and pipe size is correct as my returns are 3/4", also by drains are 1" each so that's 600gph per return for a total of 1200.

Taking that into consideration and the fact that my total head loss is 15ft which is total length of tubing from pump outlet to the return in the tank, includes both vertical and horizontal... Is how I figure the blueline hd 100 would be right pump... But using this calculator it tells me I'm at 24ft... Not 15 which is what I don't get....

What am I doing wrong?

 

[lance]

Is it just 1 return jet?
50 to 75% with your setup would be safe. It is best to go short and strait as possible.And this would never be enough current for you main tank unless its a 10 gallon. Is this setup from a sump or fuge?

 

[Ziggy953]

Is it just 1 return jet?
50 to 75% with your setup would be safe. It is best to go short and strait as possible.And this would never be enough current for you main tank unless its a 10 gallon. Is this setup from a sump or fuge?

Flow and circulation are different things. Circulation is calculated with flow but not the other way around. 1200gph circulation is good for a tank 55-90 and probably even larger then that. AS for flow in the tank it needs to be higher.

If you have 1200gph overflow then you need close to 1200gph at the tank. what ever pump you need to buy to get there is what you should look at. I did a quick calculation on there with a few twists and turns and is shows with MAG24 and 3 outlets I would get about 660 per outlet.

 

[02tts]

two returns with 1" drains.
Wet/dry setup
Fish only
265 gallon tank
Return is 6ft from floor/pump outle to one side, the rest is from the other return plus horizontal length from t-split.
(pump is right under the left return).

 

[Ziggy953]

With a 265g tank you are going to need a lot more then 1200gph. i would suggest double that.

 

[lance]

I do know the differance of flow and circulation. And a Mag24 puts out 2400 gph and with 2 outlets at 6 ft up your lucky if you get 200 goh from each jet. This would be if there clean and pumps working to spec. After algea collects then you will loose more.
The fuge is its own tank and needs the right amount of exchange. 200 to 400 gph going through is what you want. Less would mean algea and poor macro growth and to much means macro cant eat enough and equipment wont work as well.

Then he states a 1200 gph pump from this. Well i think you would be fine.

 

[02tts]

ok I'm lost beyond belief now...

I have a little giant 4mdqx-sc now and it's not enough.

Help... Reeflo wahoo... Blueline hd 100 are what I was thinking....

Help

 

[lance]

What are you trying to acheive? Whats the size of the main tank and the source? Is this for a sump or fuge? Whats the flow rating on that pump?

 

[02tts]

Ok here I go:

265 gallon tank from all glass with 2 returns one on each end. Drains are 1" and the returns are 3/4".

Under the cabinet I have a wet/dry system and an external skimmer, external skimmer is on a little giant 3-mdqx-sc (1200gph @ 0ft), the return is on a little giant 4-mdqx-sc (1325 @ 0 ft).

From the pump outlet I have a 1ft PVC, split into two for the 2 returns. Counting that length along with the length of the two returns to the top of the tank, including horizontal and vertical length, is 15ft.

Currently flow is not enough...prob getting 300gph to each return, if that.

The way I thought it's figured is look at the 15ft of head loss, look at the curve, in this example the hd 100 (1900gph @ 0ft) and then look at the curve to see flow rate at 15ft and wam.. Take that, let's say 1300, divide by 2 (for 2 returns) and end up with 650gph per return..

BUT when I input the numbers in that calculator and select the blueline HD 100, it says I have 24ft of head loss... How, this is where I get lost... Since I only have 15ft of head loss based on the above..

So... Which number is right and how is this calculator spitting 24ft?

For reference, only the vertical and horizontal numbers were put in, all else, I.e. 45 degree bends or valves, etc was left out and at 0.

Hope I'm explaining good enough.

Goal: put out 600 to 700gph per return.

 

[lance]

Flow for the fuge is fine. You need some powerheads in there. You need about 5000 GPH flowing and you dont wont this from the fuge return pump. You need some high end powerheads and 3 or 4 of them. This amount would be your minimum amount but i would increase it more myself. The little added flow from the skimmer and return will only help. Your lacking alot of water movement.

 

[02tts]

ok..so I assuming this head loss calculator is right, taking friction into account, pipe size, etc...then I have 24ft of head pressure loss not 15ft (which is just pipe length).

assuming that's correct, I would think the http://www.reeflopumps.com/pressurebiaseduno.html MARLIN model would be adequate, since at 25ft head it's at 1267GPH.

divide that by the two returns I would be pumping 633GPH per return...

Am I correct in the above?

that being said, for water movement inside the tank (to prevent stale water, algea growth, elevated levels, etc...I use two Koralia 4 pumps, one on each side of the tank...which seems to move water just fine across from end to end...

but my concern is the return water and how fast and how many times I'm actually turning that tank...which by my calculations, assuming this headloss calculator that's out there is accurate, I'm getting 125GPH now per return...which not only is not enough but it's probably promoting my not wanted algea growth, low PH levels (8.0 to 8.1) can't seem to get to 8.2 or 8.3...amongst other things...

as I understand that poor water flow from the returns can equate to all of the above...do to lack oxygen exchange, etc...

correct or am I way of base here...

(as for chemicals and/or test, yes they are all normal, except for PH)

nitrites: 0
nitrates: 20
phosphates: 0.25
salt: 1.023
amonia=0
calcium=440 (but can't get coraline algea to grow)...using T5's for lighting..and trust me, there is enough lights, and of the right kind

so...am I on track here or way off...

 

[lance]

If your getting to much flow through your fuge then your fuge suffers. Even with the return and the 2 K4's your still a little low.
I cant find the head loss calculator and im positive you will loose atleast half of the rated flow if not more. Dont factor in your return from fuge for main tanks needed flow. The amount it may add will only help. Achive good flow from independent sources. Many problems from low flow take time to appear , like months or yrs. Get good flow in there and then move on to next issue.

 

[ccCapt]

When you plug in your #'s in the calculator, there is a spot to enter how many exits there are. Don't assume you divide by 2 because you have 2 exits. Let the calculator do the work.
How big is your sump? The recommended flow rate thru a sump is 5-10x the tank volume. But, if your sump is small, like 10g size, running even 1000gph thru it may be too much. My sump is a 55 in my basement directly under the tank. I use a Gen-X PCX 40 and with head loss I'm pushing around 850 gph thru my sump.
As far as flow inside the tank, what kind of corals do you have? Soft coral doesn't need or want nearly as much flow as SPS. In my 125 mostly SPS tank, I have 2 Koralia 4's, 2 K-3's and 1 K-1.
The amount of flow you have now is not a factor as far as algae growth. Looking at the parameters you posted, what sticks out is the phosphate level. You mentioned you have unwanted algae. You may think 0.25 is low (recommended phosphate level is 0.05), but that's only what's free in the water. The algae in the tank is sucking it up. You need to remove the food source (phosphate) and the algae will die off. Phophate inhibits calcification, which can and will prevent coralline from growing. Also, what is your alk and mag levels? All 3 (ca, alk, mag) go hand in hand and are used proportionately by hard coral and coralline.

 

[cmor1701d]

CCCAPT is giving you the correct advice here. Ziggy's calculation is also correct. I'm not sure about this but you may need to add a ball valve to even the flow between the two returns if one is driectly above the pump and the other is 6 feet horizontal to that.

Do you have a refugium with macro algea, or do you have any macro in the sump?