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Old 08-22-2012, 06:03 PM   #1
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Will Probably Re-Home the Four Goldies Soon...Questions

Okay, so it seems that with the next paycheck, I'll be in a position to buy yet another new tank (after the last 60 gallon cracked and flooded our house) and be able to transfer the four fancy goldies from the 10 gallon they're in now to a new, bigger home. Here are my concerns and questions...

First of all, we're considering getting -- due to budgetary factors -- Petsmart's Top Fin brand of tank, perhaps in a 75 gallon size, which comes with a glass Aqueon versa-top (maybe dual tops) and buying a stand separately. Something like this:

75*Gallon Aquarium » Top Fin® 75 Gallon Aquarium/Hood Combo | PetSmart

What concerns me about going the Top Fin route is that I always said I would never buy another Petsmart-branded product after previous ones just screamed "cheap" and "useless" to me -- but beyond that, if you read some of the reviews by people who own this tank in the link I provided, you'll see where the first reviewer mentioned something about his tank leaking when he first got it...that is something we CANNOT go through again, especially right off the bat. We just had our house put back together from the when the 60 gallon flooded it, so it's a nightmare we do not want to revisit any time soon. THAT concerned me very much...

What are your thoughts on the Top Fin tanks? Should they hold up just as good as any standard Marineland, Aqueon, Fujimoto, etc?

Speaking of Marineland -- the other option we're considering is this 60 gallon package at Petsmart:

Marineland® 60 Gallon Heartland Aquarium Ensemble - Black - Fish - Sale - PetSmart

The thing with this tank, though, is that reviews say it's really tall and difficult to get into when cleaning, decorating etc...further, it doesn't seem like there's a great deal of depth/front to back room, cutting down on the space the fish will have to swim. It does come with the dual LED light system, though, which intrigues me, in which you can use the daytime brighter mode during the day and switch to the blue glow hue at night. This is surely not a dealbreaker, though; we also like the stand it comes on.

Now -- while I look forward to everyone's input on the tanks, let me ask this...if we go with the Top Fin 75 gallon, would the two HOB filters I am preparing to run on it -- an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 and an AquaClear 110 -- be adequate enough, or will this tank require more filtration? What if I dropped the little Aqueon QuietFlow 20 I'm running on the 10 gallon right now onto the 75 to run alongside the larger two HOB's? That filter turns over 125 gallons per hour, so would that be of any benefit on the 75 along with the 800-plus gallons per hour that will be turned over by the other two?

Thanks as always...
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:27 AM   #2
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I never encourage anyone to buy bundles. Its better to buy the individual pieces seperately. I don't like certain things in each bundle.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:54 AM   #3
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I never encourage anyone to buy bundles. Its better to buy the individual pieces seperately. I don't like certain things in each bundle.
Terrance,

The tanks I mentioned in my original post aren't really "bundled kits;" they only include the tank, tops and stands -- unless we go with the Top Fin tank, and then buy the stand separately...

I have the filters, decor, gravel, bubble bars and food already -- heck, we even have a 48" Aqueon strip light and a wooden canopy that survived the last tank crack/leak! We just need a new tank, a cover of some kind (preferably the black plastic hood & light combo) and a stand...
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:10 AM   #4
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In that case, go with the 75g. Size is the only thing that matters to me.

Test for leaking for a day or two. Check for bowing of any kind. Return as needed.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:13 PM   #5
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In that case, go with the 75g. Size is the only thing that matters to me.

Test for leaking for a day or two. Check for bowing of any kind. Return as needed.
Would all it take is a few days to test for leaking? I ask because my last tank that developed a crack along the back of the glass and which ended up flooding our home may have been slowly leaking over a period of almost two years...

So, you say go with the Top Fin brand 75 gallon? Should I have any reservations about buying Petsmart's house brand, or are all aquariums pretty much the same?
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:03 PM   #6
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Okay, so I did some online research on the Top Fin tanks, and it seems there are reports of people claiming these tanks are merely re-branded Aqueons/All Glass aquariums, made by Aqueon for Petsmart, who throws the Top Fin label on them...I also read, from other sources, that the Top Fin tanks are in fact made by Marineland's Perfecto division and that many of them are packaged with Marineland hoods and lights, while some are bundled with Aqueon glass tops, etc. For what it's worth, I know that I noticed, in my local Petsmart, that the 75 gallon Top Fin tank we were looking at came bundled with Aqueon glass versa tops...

I am not sure which I believe, but has anyone heard anything about this or know if the Top Fin tanks are merely re-branded All Glass/Aqueons or Marinelands? If so, the quality couldn't be that bad; interestingly enough, I have learned that the filters that come with the Top Fin tank kits are made by Tetra...perhaps that's why I saw a whole advertisement for Tetra products slapped on the cardboard packaging of one of the Top Fin tanks the last time I was in my local Petsmart...
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:15 PM   #7
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Can anyone at least tell me if the current filtration I have and plan to use on a new tank would be sufficient for a 75 gallon? We plan on installing our existing Aqueon QuietFlow 55 (300 or so GPH) and a AquaClear 110 (500 or so GPH).

Would this be alright for a 75 gallon (we were using these two filters plus two 18" bubble bars on a 60 gallon previously) or am I going to need additional filtration?
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:10 PM   #8
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Its adequate filtration.

EDIT: please keep up with weekly 50% water changes as its more important than filtration.
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Old 08-24-2012, 08:13 PM   #9
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Dear Artesanwells,

The combination of the Aqueon 55 and AC 110 should be okay and providing 10 times gallon size/hour which is just right for goldies. And obviously any media you can transfer from another tank to your new one will help grow the beneficial bacteria you will need in the tank.

Good luck,
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:56 PM   #10
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Its adequate filtration.

EDIT: please keep up with weekly 50% water changes as its more important than filtration.
Thank you, Terrance. And I shall keep up with the water changes. I think I learned my lesson from last time...

Here's a question about the cycling/re-entry plan for the goldies going into the larger tank: Should the new tank be running a certain amount of time with fresh (treated) tap water and the filters running BEFORE the fish go in? And should I even start with a product like Seachem's Stability to kick-start the cycle...or just leave the fish to do their thing in this regard?
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Old 08-25-2012, 02:59 PM   #11
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Dear Artesanwells,

The combination of the Aqueon 55 and AC 110 should be okay and providing 10 times gallon size/hour which is just right for goldies. And obviously any media you can transfer from another tank to your new one will help grow the beneficial bacteria you will need in the tank.

Good luck,
Chris
Thanks a lot Chris!

The only reason I asked was because I was running the same setup before on a smaller tank -- that is, the Aqueon and the AquaClear -- and now we're considering going with a 75 gallon (the tank that cracked on us previously was a 60). So, I wanted to make sure I didn't need to add another filter to this new setup (if we go with the bigger 75)...

As for transferring the media from the 10 gallon, yeah, I was actually thinking of putting the Aqueon QuietFlow 20 that's on the 10 gallon now onto the 60 or 75 gallon, whichever we get, just to add a third filter to the mix and that way, along with more gallons per hour being turned over, the seeded media would kind of be in place...
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:00 PM   #12
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So...just so I understand perfectly:

The Aqueon 55 and AquaClear 110 will both be okay running on a 75 gallon, even though previously they were filtering a 60 gallon?
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:51 PM   #13
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Thank you, Terrance. And I shall keep up with the water changes. I think I learned my lesson from last time...

Here's a question about the cycling/re-entry plan for the goldies going into the larger tank: Should the new tank be running a certain amount of time with fresh (treated) tap water and the filters running BEFORE the fish go in? And should I even start with a product like Seachem's Stability to kick-start the cycle...or just leave the fish to do their thing in this regard?
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So...just so I understand perfectly:

The Aqueon 55 and AquaClear 110 will both be okay running on a 75 gallon, even though previously they were filtering a 60 gallon?
Yes its adequate. You can add more filtration, but it doesn't change anything except you may be able to siphon less waste off the substrate.

If the filter media has been running on another tank, then you can just fill the tank with treated water, transfer the filter, and then put your fish into the tank. No delay.

If at any time your filter media was able to dry out or sit in non-moving water for a day or two, then you will have to cycle.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:21 PM   #14
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Yes its adequate. You can add more filtration, but it doesn't change anything except you may be able to siphon less waste off the substrate.
Okay; I was only double-confirming because all you hear about is the "amount of filtration required for adequate turnover rate -- especially on a goldfish tank!" and all that. I wanted to be sure that these two filters that were previously running on a 60 would also be "okay" on a 75...

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If the filter media has been running on another tank, then you can just fill the tank with treated water, transfer the filter, and then put your fish into the tank. No delay.

If at any time your filter media was able to dry out or sit in non-moving water for a day or two, then you will have to cycle.
This one is a little more tricky -- the Aqueon 20 that's on the 10 gallon and has been running on there has had a cartridge changed since the original one initially went in (due to an odor we thought was coming from it due to the massive bio-load of this tank), so I am not sure if the new cartridge is 100 percent "seeded" as of yet...I realize this ran the risk of experiencing a mini cycle because of the changed media, but I was hoping that was handled by any BB that may have built up on the Aqueon HOB's blue plastic "bio grid" pieces which are supposed to handle colonization...

At any rate, what exactly should I do when I get the new tank? Fill it up with tap water (after all decor, gravel, etc. has been rinsed off, etc. and placed), get the filters running, make sure the tank isn't leaking for a couple of days, with the filters running, then treat the tank with Prime and I can pretty much add the fish from the other tank? Should I even bother to use a product like Stability as I did last time to kick-start the cycle? I don't think this product actually does anything but make the water cloudy because of the bottled bacteria, but I'm thinking it's just something to "brace" the fresh water in the brand-new tank for the incoming fish, being that they're coming from a different tank...although the tap water will be from the same source.

I only ask these questions because you didn't seem to mention a fish-in cycle; I am assuming you meant that if we can't use the previous media then I'll have to do a fish-in cycle? If so, what does that really equate to...just watching and testing the water parameters and doing water changes as necessary while the fish are in there?
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:35 PM   #15
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If you're unsure of whether you have adequate BB, then re-do the cycle process. FIshless cycle is recommended, but not necessary. You can do fish-in cycle, but its more time consuming. You can use money to buy bottled products to speed up the process. I recommend products like Dr. Tim's One and Only or Safestart to help decrease the amount of time for fish-in cycle. I have not read too much into Stability yet.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:39 PM   #16
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If you're unsure of whether you have adequate BB, then re-do the cycle process. FIshless cycle is recommended, but not necessary. You can do fish-in cycle, but its more time consuming. You can use money to buy bottled products to speed up the process. I recommend products like Dr. Tim's One and Only or Safestart to help decrease the amount of time for fish-in cycle. I have not read too much into Stability yet.
I used the Stability in the past, but all this seems to do is make the water cloudy for awhile (because it's bottled bacteria) even though it's supposed to kind of "brace" the tank water for the fish, and vice-versa (according to Seachem's marketing materials, all aquatic life forms can be added at any time when using Stability, so long as the dose is continued for the prescribed seven days).

Regardless, what's the procedure with the fish-in cycle, exactly?
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:34 AM   #17
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I used the Stability in the past, but all this seems to do is make the water cloudy for awhile (because it's bottled bacteria) even though it's supposed to kind of "brace" the tank water for the fish, and vice-versa (according to Seachem's marketing materials, all aquatic life forms can be added at any time when using Stability, so long as the dose is continued for the prescribed seven days).

Regardless, what's the procedure with the fish-in cycle, exactly?
Do as many water changes as necessary to keep the ammonia and nitrItes zero. If you test your water today and you get 1.0 ammonia, then you're going to have to do a complete 100% (or as close to it as possible) water change. Feed the goldfish as little as possible. You're likely to going to have to test everyday until you get zero ammonia and nitrIte readings with some nitrAte reading.

Its normal to get clouding from Safestart and One and Only, so I'm assuming its also normal for Stability.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:57 PM   #18
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Do as many water changes as necessary to keep the ammonia and nitrItes zero. If you test your water today and you get 1.0 ammonia, then you're going to have to do a complete 100% (or as close to it as possible) water change. Feed the goldfish as little as possible. You're likely to going to have to test everyday until you get zero ammonia and nitrIte readings with some nitrAte reading.

Its normal to get clouding from Safestart and One and Only, so I'm assuming its also normal for Stability.
Okay, so with regard to the cycle...

1. Fill the new tank up, whenever we get it and set everything up (substrate, decor, filters, etc.), with fresh tap water treated with Prime

2. Let it run, perhaps, for a couple of days just to ensure no leaking and that the filters are properly working

3. Scoop the fish from the 10 gallon out (no net procedure) and place them in a Ziplock bag, then proceed to float them for the 15 minute adjustment period

4. Release fish, ALL TOGETHER, into the new tank

5. Now at this point...are you saying I need to monitor, on a daily basis, the parameters while the fish are in and kick-starting the cycle?

Are these steps accurate and correct?
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Old 08-29-2012, 04:15 AM   #19
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Yes that sounds accurate. Test the water parameter daily. If you are doubting the water quality, then it wouldn't hurt to test it for a second time per day.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:21 PM   #20
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Yes that sounds accurate. Test the water parameter daily. If you are doubting the water quality, then it wouldn't hurt to test it for a second time per day.
Thank you; and this is all that is necessary for a "fish-in" cycle?
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