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Old 01-18-2007, 09:33 AM   #1
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Apisto Breeding Journal

this will be my first attempt an intentionally trying to get any fish to breed, so i though i would journal it...

Species: Apistogramma hongsloi

i will be picking up a pair (i know most apistos prefer a hareem, but 1m and 1 female is all she has) from a local breeder. she has not breed them yet, but received them at an auction she wanted to get ride of them so i decided to take them (FREE FISH!!!!)

i will be re-arranging my ten gallon that currently houses a Apistogramma sp. Steel-Blue" (he will move to my 75 gallon) and 4 Zebra Danios (they will move to 26 gallon asian community).

the tank is planted, Eco-Compleat Substrate, with DIY CO2, one piece of driftwood, and a small terra cotta pot "cave".



current water params...
Ammonia/nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 20 ppm
Phosphate = 2 ppm
PH = 8.0
KH = 13 degrees
GH = 21 degrees

after acclimation i plan to slowly add RO water (thinking 1 gallon of RO week 1, 2 gallons week 2..so on) on PWC days... or should i go in smaller increments?

i am also thinking of adding peat to the filter...

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Old 01-18-2007, 09:45 PM   #2
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Can't advise you on the RO water additions. But very cool to keep a journal for the breeding. I'll check in and see how you are making out. Good luck!
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Old 01-19-2007, 09:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagz
Can't advise you on the RO water additions. But very cool to keep a journal for the breeding. I'll check in and see how you are making out. Good luck!
thanks anyways i guess i can ask the breeder about the RO when i pick up the fish... TOMORROW i am very excited!

today my thoughts are on foods to condition them...

Any suggestions on a diet to bring out the "mood for love" in them?

i was thinking of using frozen Brine shrimp and Bloodworms as well as New Life Spectrum Brand food.

i like the results i am getting in my malawi cichlids using NLS Cichlid Formula and i rotate in NLS community in to my feeding regiment of my 75 gallon. is there a better NLS formula to help induce apistos to spawn...(other then Community formula) or is there a better food all together?

thoughts?

Thanks
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Old 01-19-2007, 09:49 AM   #4
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I use NLS cichlid formula for my GBR's and the danios, and glo-light tetras eat it as well. I feed my GBR's live blackworms to try and induce spawning and it seems to work. Water changes also seem to have a positive effect on them.

I am curious as to why your pH is 8.0 if you have DIY CO2 injection, which should lower it quite a bit. I would start off with half RO and half of the current tank water to get the pH down to about 7.5. That way any partial addition of RO will not be that substantial of a change in the pH. You will want a slightly lower pH not only because the fish would like that but because it inhibits the growth of fungus which will destroy the eggs. With the parents fanning it may not be a big problem but my thought is to give the eggs the best chance possible.
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Old 01-19-2007, 10:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bs6749
I use NLS cichlid formula for my GBR's and the danios, and glo-light tetras eat it as well. I feed my GBR's live blackworms to try and induce spawning and it seems to work. Water changes also seem to have a positive effect on them.

I am curious as to why your pH is 8.0 if you have DIY CO2 injection,
water out of the tap is 8.0... i have only been running the DIY about a week now and to be honest i have not checked the ph yet...
Quote:
which should lower it quite a bit. I would start off with half RO and half of the current tank water to get the pH down to about 7.5.
so after i remove the current inhabitants do a pwc with and add back 5 gallons of RO? i can do that that is so simple any extra acclimation advice since the fish will be coming to to from water with 8.0 ph (no CO2 in that tank)
Quote:
That way any partial addition of RO will not be that substantial of a change in the pH. You will want a slightly lower pH not only because the fish would like that but because it inhibits the growth of fungus which will destroy the eggs. With the parents fanning it may not be a big problem but my thought is to give the eggs the best chance possible.
thanks
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Old 01-19-2007, 11:43 PM   #6
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Frozen bloodworms always seem to help my fish get in the breeding mood LOL. Don't know why but they do. I use both NLS community formula and cichlid formula. IMO it is a great food. All my fish's coloring has come out like crazy and I can't get the cichlids to quit spawning. I've even removed the females yellows from the tank to give them a break. They were holding every two months and I was concerned that they didn't have enough time in between to rest and recuperate, not to mention eat!
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:10 AM   #7
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If you haven't tested the pH yet and assuming it is working it may actually be around 7.5 anyway.

I would not take the fish out of the tank when you do PWC's because it would be more stress. As for acclimating I would do it over a period of half an hour or so if you are really worried about it. I doubt that it will make a big impact on the fish.

If you don't want to do 5 gallons all at once, do 2.5 the first day and 2.5 two days later. That would be another way to gradualy lower the pH. This may help them to acclimate as well.
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bs6749
If you haven't tested the pH yet and assuming it is working it may actually be around 7.5 anyway.

I would not take the fish out of the tank when you do PWC's
i removed the Apisto "steel-blue" and put him in my 75 gallon... and put the 4 zebra Danios in my 26 gallon. i did not remove them for the pwc and put them back in LOL
Quote:
because it would be more stress. As for acclimating I would do it over a period of half an hour or so if you are really worried about it. I doubt that it will make a big impact on the fish.

If you don't want to do 5 gallons all at once, do 2.5 the first day and 2.5 two days later. That would be another way to gradually lower the pH. This may help them to acclimate as well.
i already did the pwc last night with bottled RO from the grocery store (the re-fill able bottles I think should be economical for a 10 gallon ) water was cold so I wanted to adjust to temp over night for the fish to be added today. i apparently did not drain out quite 5 gallons of water as i was only able to squeeze 4.8 gallon of RO back into the tank I can not see how 0.2 gallon should make much of a difference though... will post NEW tank parms later


Update
PH= 7.2
KH= 7 degrees
Better keep any eye on this might need a better diffusion method
GH= 11 degrees
Those are what you would expect when my tap water was mix 50/50 with RO water no surprises there…

Nitrate= 10-15 ppm (fine for the fish a little low for he plants according to dosing calculations I should have 20 ppm, perhaps the plants used 5 ppm in 5 hours of light )
Nitrite= 0 ppm
Ammonia= 0 ppm

I know you are want pictures…well you are going to have to wait…the fish are currently acclimating LOL

EDIT #2Ok they are not really wanting to cooperate much...but here are a couple pictures...

Female


Male
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:25 PM   #9
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They look great! Good colors and very healthy looking.
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Old 01-20-2007, 07:38 PM   #10
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Nice looking fish.
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Old 01-20-2007, 08:49 PM   #11
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Nice looking fish. Hopefully everything will work out for you.
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Old 01-20-2007, 10:27 PM   #12
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thanks all I will try to post a few more (better) pictures once they settle in.
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:22 PM   #13
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They will really get in the mood if you drop the temp to about 74 degrees do a pwc(about 25 percent) and add in the RO water then raise the temp slowly over a day or two til you hit about 78/80 degrees. This simulates the rainy season in S.A. (the time for Apisto love). Of course you do this while pumping them full of bloodworm.
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Old 01-21-2007, 09:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwhayley
They will really get in the mood if you drop the temp to about 74 degrees do a pwc(about 25 percent) and add in the RO water then raise the temp slowly over a day or two til you hit about 78/80 degrees. This simulates the rainy season in S.A. (the time for Apisto love). Of course you do this while pumping them full of bloodworm.
add in strait RO after a 25% change? current temp is 80 btw

A few more pictures


New Full tank shot...
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:55 PM   #15
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That's all it took for me, the ph drops rapidly in the amazon river sytems quite rapidly during the rainy season, and so does the water temp which warms back up slowly.
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Old 01-21-2007, 09:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwhayley
That's all it took for me, the ph drops rapidly in the amazon river sytems quite rapidly during the rainy season, and so does the water temp which warms back up slowly.
so how fast should i drop the temp down to arond 74 from the current 78-80 it is at now?
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Old 01-21-2007, 09:42 PM   #17
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If your heater has a thermostat on it adjust while you do the pwc just ad the water slowly (that is if your heater is submersible).

Sorry just saw the submesible heater in the picture.
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Old 01-22-2007, 02:39 PM   #18
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i am a little worried... the male is doing great, but i am worried about the female she is hiding up behind the intake of the HOB filter.

do you think the male is picking on her?

should i add some dither fish to target?

any suggestions you can offer would be great!
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:28 AM   #19
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She may not be ready to spawn yet. I would advise that you take a couple of 2 inch flower pot and cut or drill a hole in the side that is just big enough for her, but too small for the male to get in this will give her the security she needs, and yes dithers couldn't hurt either.
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:02 AM   #20
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I'm going to echo rwhayley. A temp drop will definitely induce spawning. The caution here is that both male and female have formed a bond and are both breeding ready. Until that point just keep feeding high protein foods and provide the female adaquate hiding places.
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