apistogramma cacatuoides breeding q's - with pics!

[Big Ben]

I currently have 2 apistogramma cacatuoides in a standard 20 gal. Tankmates include: 1 bristlenose pleco, 2 chinest algae eaters, 4 bronze corys and a lone pristella tetra. I've heard mixed reports on having these tank mates?

The tank is planted with 65 watts of compact fluroscent. I'm wondering if this light is too bright for them to start with as my first q.

At first they were hanging around eachother,the female was not yellow however. Lately the male won't tolerate here being near him and he chases her away. She always finds cover in the plants, so im not too worried about her being heavily stressed. Is she just not ready to breed and the males harrassing her because he is? Im thinking of adding 2 more females..im just worried though that they might stop eating like the other one i had in there. maybe it wont happen again if there are more then 1 extra female? sorry im just realy not sure why the male is chasing her away now.

Also im wondering what else i should do to induce spawning. There is a small flower pot and a cave similar to pvc pipe. should there be more cavesor a better one? i've also been alternating twice a day with froze brine shrimp and blood worms. Ive done 10% water changes once a day for the last couple of days. I know the nitrates are under 5-10 ppm.

Also i thought i should let u all know that they are wild caught. I will test my water wen i get to work tomoro (i work at petstore with fish too, dont have all the tests here). I have a feeling the ph is 6.5 and my temp is at 78.

thanks, ben

[Big Ben]

tankmates now include only 4 bronze corys and a lone pristella tetra.

[SparKy697]

There are many more qualified to give you advice about breeding cacs. I do believe that the fish you listed will make it difficult at best to keep the eggs from being eaten. The Apistos will defend their nest but your tank is heavy with bottom feeders. I think that if you are planning on breeding you may want to consider making some changes.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by SparKy697

There are many more qualified to give you advice about breeding cacs. I do believe that the fish you listed will make it difficult at best to keep the eggs from being eaten. The Apistos will defend their nest but your tank is heavy with bottom feeders. I think that if you are planning on breeding you may want to consider making some changes.

I completely agree. Especially the CAE's.....

Oh, and a 20G is way too small for 1 CAE, let alone 2. I have one in my 55G, and he's reached 7 inches, and has not stopped growing.

Edit:
Did you move the CAE's and BN? If so, then it won't be as hard on the apistos. Hope you didn't get rid of the BN Pleco. I love those little guys.

[Gillie]

Corys are notorious egg and fry eaters, I always keep my Cacs with a couple of Ottos when I am expecting a spawn. Also if you have no luck try raising the ph a bit 6.8-7.0 range. Cacatuoides are one of the Apisto species that spawn in a closer to neutral ph, you can also try a temp drop(72-74) along with a large water change to simulate the Amazon rainy season and gradually raise the temp to normal ranges. That usually does the trick with wild Apistos.

[Big Ben]

Yes the BN has been moved into my 48 gal, the CAE's to my gfs tank. I will move the corys, tahnks for that advice. Should I removed the pristella? The only reason I have it is because it was eating the fins off my gfs fish.

Gillie thankyou for the tips, everywhere i read online i read that they are the easiest apistos to breed but noone mentions what to do to actualy induce spawning other then having caves, feed live or frozen foods and not to mess with the ph because it wont matter aslong as its within 6-7.5. Ive heard ppl have had sucess breading in even higher phs in fact.

I have a question about getting the ph up to that level 6.8-7.0. The thing is I am using a diy yeast co2 injection. I know that this is the cause of the lower ph as my tap water comes out at 7.0 and it is 7.0 in my 48 gal. How would I go about keeping it steady at a higher range? I would remove the co2 but I don't know if my plants would be ok ill have to check up on that again.

I will try lowering the temp to 72-74 as you mentioned. I previosly lowerd it to 75-76 and brought it back to 78, doing water changes everyday the last 4 days including today of about 10%. How large of a water should i do? 50%?

The male hangs around inside the pvc like cave, everynow and then he will leave and ussualy chase the female if he sees her.

Thanks again for the tips

heres a few pics of the female, ill get some of the male tomorow.

sorry about the algae spots

[Big Ben]

Update

Thanks again gillie for the tip, i did a 50% water change and lowered the temp to 73-74 (cant go lower because its about 75 in my house). I came back from the lake today and it looks like the last big water change combined with the drop in temp did the trick.

[Big Ben]

I had wigglers but they became the mothers snack... .

Good news though: the female is already following the male around, it seems he isnt ready yet this time.

3 questions for u all:
I plan on removing the eggs the next time, is it bad if they leave the water* for a few seconds?

They seemed to have spawned when i got the temp down to 73-74 from 76-77 after a large water change. Is it safe to raise the temp back up once the eggs are in a dif tank so they hatch and grow more fast?

Does water temp affect male to female fry ratio? Ive heard it does as well as ph?

[Gillie]

Excellent news about the spawn. It is normal for the first one or two lays, but if your not breeding them to sell but more for the fun there's really no need to remove the eggs. removing the eggs takes away from being able to see all of what the Cacs have to offer as far as behavior goes, and they are great parents. If your ph is on the lower end of neutral the ratio shoul be pretty even. I keep mine at a ph of 7.8 and get a higher male to female ratio, which works out well because most stores around me want only males.

[Big Ben]

My ph is 7.4 these days, in the winter my ph used to come out 7.0 . This should be good tho for finding homes for the all the males. A few things happend in the last 2 weeks. I added a couple more females to the tank but I returned both after I noticed one had dropsy. 3 days later my female developed dropsy and is now dead. With all the plants my waters nitrate never reads more then 5 (also no2 0, nh3 0), so I was surprised she caught it. I heard these fish were susceptible to bacteria infections but i didn't expect to get them already infected. They were in with wild caught discus so I bet the shop owners are worried now.

Good news though, I very well may win some triple reds of aquabid. I am very excited and hope I win them.

[Gillie]

Did you win?

[Big Ben]

Indeed . They took a week but arrived ok. They are doing good so far. I will post pics when I get home from work today.

[Gillie]

Congrats, I almost bid on the same ones . Coming from Apisto Dave I'm sure the look great. I found a male Cac with almost the exact color pattern I was looking for hopefully he will grow to be a show winner.