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Old 05-24-2006, 09:48 PM   #1
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Betta Stock

I have 2 males and a beautiful female. I want to try breeding them but I am concerned with the ease of getting rid of the off spring. My main reason for wanting to breed is because I am hoping for a male colored like the female.

So how hard will it be to rid my self of the remaining off spring?

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Old 05-24-2006, 09:54 PM   #2
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You should probably ask first at some lfs stores near you - not the chain stores - if they will take the juveniles, before you get started with breeding.

Moved to the Breeding forum.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:08 PM   #3
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Very few LFS here, one which I seriously doubt would want my bettas, and the second, I wouldnt trust with my bettas :P
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:29 PM   #4
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I don't know if it is something you want to mess with, but you could also consider selling them online.
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Old 05-25-2006, 12:13 AM   #5
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I thought about posting them on local forums, as well as in our local paper, online is a different beast altogether, a 3-5$ fish then becomes a $10-15 fish due to shipping :P
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:54 AM   #6
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It's really not that hard to get rid of the offspring must mom and pop stores will tke them. I know the ones in my area take mine all the time. It's the growout tanks that you'll need to get them to the size most stores want before you sell them. A asking price of $3 to $5 for the common vail tail is high. I sell mine for $2 bucks males and $1 for the females.
If you get a fry of 150 to 200 whitch is quit easy for a betta to do. Your going to need a couple of 20g or a 55g to grow them out. As with most betta you buy from the store trying to pick your color of the fry is super hard. Do the fact that no store knows the ture color of the bettas parents. You could line bred up to the color you want. But that could take up to 3 or 4 frys to get.
I'm trying to get a black vail tail. I've started with a 1/2 black female and a 1/2 black male. I got from a fry. I've breed them togeather and got a 3/4 black and blue male and a almost all black female. They have been bred togeather and now. I'm waitting on there fry to come of age where I can see how many black male and females shows up out of it.
I'll then take and bred the best blacks from that fry and do the same with the fry after that. Antil I get a full black male vail tail. But that could still be 5 or 6 frys down the road. If your wanting to get a peacific color you'd be better off ordering a sibling pr from a breeder. This way you will know the color of the parents and what colors you could look for from there fry.
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Old 05-25-2006, 03:33 PM   #7
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With the ease of which they die you'll probably have less to worry about than you think. Are you prepared to house a lot of baby fish until they get colour? It might be a while before you find one that you want to keep.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:39 PM   #8
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At least 3 to 5 months.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel F.
At least 3 to 5 months.
expected as much

how well do sibling males get along?
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Old 05-25-2006, 11:58 PM   #10
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I figured I'd Better let you know . I'm not trying to turn you off. On breeding Betta's by no means. I thank it's best to ask the questions before hand. That way you kinda know what to look forward to. It's not that there's lots and lots of stuff to know about breeding the vail tail betta's. It's always better to ask before hand then to ask after there here and looking for food.
To me Betta are cheaper to spawn and breed for 4 reason.
1. they're cheap fish. That's not a bad thing at all. It's a great thing. To still beable to get one of if not the frist fish in the hobbie or avalable the frist fist in the hobbie and the reason we all today are in this hobbie.
2. They're a really easy or wait a fairly simple fish to spawn. { DEPENDING ON THE SPICES AS IT DOES WITH MOST ANY FISH ] It's mainly the male that choses the where and when it's spawning time.
3. Not just are they nice to bred and a great learning lesson for kids on the breeding cycle of a spices. But the lesson of life or the base of how life cycles happen.
4. Now to me this is the greatest part of the breding cycle or stages of breding betta's. A single breeding Tank can go throw all the differnt stages needed for breding Betta's.

The tank can start out bare bottomed for starting the spawning by adding the male then the female. Then dearing the stage of spawning, Just add a divider or dividers depending on the # of males to spawn. Then once they've breed. Take and remove the female and let the male do his thing and take care of the fry. then around 4to 5 days later { I always pull the males on day 5 cause by then he's really tried} Not only that the egg sack is gone and live baby brine shrimp can be added 3 times a day .
So a single 10g BB tank has went from holding tank for the males to grow out tank for the betta frys. By doing it this way you can divided the tank into 3 tanks and the frys can grow out togeather making them. Less likly to fight and will produce some nice fry prs. For future spawning slibing partners. Good luck and if need ny more help please feel free to PM me and ask. I don't mind helping at all.
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:03 AM   #11
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I have sibling males 7 to 8 months old still in the same tank. Fry raised togeather can stay togeather for up to 9 months before the male kick his @$$ gene kicks in. LOL If you remove a fish from the fry for any amount of time say 10 to 30 minites. Trust me they will for get the other by that time and the Kick that @$$ gene goes into high gear.
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Old 05-31-2006, 05:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Very few LFS here, one which I seriously doubt would want my bettas, and the second, I wouldnt trust with my bettas
Then don't think about who may ultimately wind up with them!

Get yourself an oscar. They'll rid you of them real quick. Or join the local aquarium club and give them to the cichlid people. They always appreciate free live food.

I bet lfs will be more willing to take females. Around me, the chain stores don't ever have them, so when the lfs gets them they go really quick. I guess a lot of people have the same idea And you don't always have to get rid of all of them at the same time. You might be able to get them to take the fish at the smallest saleable size, then at larger sizes later.
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I just want my planted tanks to be perfect. Is that so much to ask?

55g: (Mostly) African riverine species: Alestes Chaperi, breeding pair of Kribs, and rhino pleco
30g: Newly established reef tank
10g: Planted but fishless
5g: Unplanted with various snail species
2.5g: Heavily planted with betta.
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Old 06-01-2006, 11:35 AM   #13
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Here we go again with people thanking that if your fish ain't a Cichlid then it's food for a cichlid. I'm sorry but I don't find that remark One bit funny or even intertaining. I find it afensive and hateful. I know every bodys got there own opinion and is intiled to it. But I just don't thank that someone should tell the other peson asking for help on the care or help with them. That they should just feed them to another fish.
I know I have Cichlids and love them. They can be a meat eatting fish. But my Betta's are my faverit fish and would do anything for them to make them happy and to feed them to another one of my fish just because my other fish will eat there fry. Is wrong in my opion. Most of the people on here feel the same way. It's there fish and they want to see there fish produce off springs to beable to keep apart of that fish alive after it's dead. Then someone says fed it to my cichlid if you can't get rid of it.
This is all IMO and no one else's are maybe it is. But in any case I find someone telling a menber of the site asking for help just to feed there fish to another wrong. I know it's a part of life and will always be.
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Old 06-01-2006, 06:05 PM   #14
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First, I have both an oscar and bettas. I decided against breeding my bettas because I knew I couldn't handle hundreds of fry and I really am too soft to feed them to the monster. I think its honorable that Weasel F. doesn't cull fry. Had I bred mine I would have been the same way. When your fish spawn (especially those who would not have done otherwise without your deliberate intervention), I think you're responsible for the results.
But I wasn't trying to be funny with my suggestion. Plenty of people who love and breed bettas (and other types of fish for their traits) decide to cull them in this way. It's their decision. I think it really becomes a consideration of economics. If you're really serious about breeding for a trait, you're going to be overrun with them, with only a few that you're going to use in your breeding program. Do you spend your time, money, and energy trying to develop your line or taking care of the ones that are a result of your project but not a part of it? It's important to consider this now, before you try to breed. It is a reality of the hobby.
Hovoc seems to be somewhat limited on outlets for the babies. If you're just going to be spawing once or twice, maybe you won't have a problem finding places for them. But eventually you'll saturate the market for them, as they are a common and easily available fish. I'm really with An t-iasg. You need to do your research and get creative to be sure you can find people to take them. And joining a fish club is still a great way to find a place for the young.
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I just want my planted tanks to be perfect. Is that so much to ask?

55g: (Mostly) African riverine species: Alestes Chaperi, breeding pair of Kribs, and rhino pleco
30g: Newly established reef tank
10g: Planted but fishless
5g: Unplanted with various snail species
2.5g: Heavily planted with betta.
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Old 06-01-2006, 07:46 PM   #15
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Thanks for understanding, That's the last thing I wanted to do was to upset some one for speaking my mind. I know that can get you into trouble alot of times on here. Yes I also feel that if your breeding to just see your fish breed. Then you need to besure and beaware that that fish is not going to just spawn a few fish but more then likly 2 or 3 hundred. My Crowntails frist fry was 500+ I about fell over. But that's not uncommon with Betta's and getting rid of 200 ,300 , even 400 betta's can be a test of one's mind.
But for those of us who do breed for color,finages, style and other trates and some profit. Breeding betta' can and is a super load of fun. I'm into my 3 genaration of fry trying to bred soild black vail tail betta male and female. I started with a wal-mart betta whitch to must breeders is a complete falure to start with. For 1 you have no clue as to the frist blood line of the betta. So I started off in the dark to begein any forum of line breeding. My frist spawn resulted in a 3/4 black and 1/4 blue male with 3 1/2 black and 1/2 red females. My secound spawn produced 5 3/4 black with just a hint of red males and 10 to 12 3/4 black with 1/4 red females. Now in the 3rd fry witch is 2 to 2 1/2 months old I have already begun to see lots and lots of black showing in the males and I have 3 females that are looking soid black.
I should only have to spawn at least 2 more fry before I get soild black line that will breed and spawn soild black fry. Fingers crossed anyway. I know If not in the next fry I forsure will produce soild black line by the 3rd spawn. That will mean I will have done what I've set out to do in just under a 2yrs. I know that on breeding a comb tail black will be a lot easyer because i will know the blood line of the full black female and the male is being ordered from a breder with 3/4 black Dad and a full black mother.
That's one of the reasons when trying to bred ature color betta from a wal-mart stock is two steps behind to start don't know the ture color of the parents of the one you buy. Breeding for a finage like comb tail is so much easyer then trying to color spawn a fry. Just pick out the female with the fins you like and the same with the male and so on down the line of fry til you get the finages you are looking for. You have to keep the offspring longer then you ould if you just breeding to sell. But in the end you can honstly say " That's one I made happen!"
If your wanting a quick and easy way of selling your fry. I went to a craft store and bought 25 vases { flower vases } bought 10 bags of glass marbles and then some bambo shots and filled the bottom of the vase with marbles and added two stocks of bambo and a young male or female betta. Went to a flee market and sold them for $10.00 bucks a pop. I only had $2.35 in each one. Not bad for a begaining. Then A lot of mom and pop pet shops will buy your left of males either as singles or prs. Single males I sold for $2.00 and females sold for $1.50. I'veeven sold them some of the flower vases for $20.00 bucks.
So there are a few Ideals on if your wanting to bred and don't know how to get rid of the fry. That's a couple of quick ways. That works really really good and makes about $200.00 in profit for each fry of 200+. You may have a few hundred cups hanging around for a month once they get older and can't be housed togeather. Witch is usaually after the 9th month. Just thought I'd throw that out there if you are still wanting to bred your betta. Either for lineage breeding or for just seeing ason of him swimming around!
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:07 AM   #16
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Well my female changed color, shes gotten darker, and that color I wanted is no longer there

Keep us updated on that Solid Blacvk Male, Id be interested in getting one from you if you get it.
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:14 AM   #17
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Is the female and adult? Could the colour change just be from being ready to breed? Females can change colours when stressed from something or when ready to breed.
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:51 PM   #18
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Well, tell us what color she is now and what color you want. Females do change color in the presence of males if they're ready to breed. That might be what it is, especially because the color change seemed to happen quickly. White bettas (maybe others?), however, often turn darker as they age. I'm sure Weasel F could help ya out.
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I just want my planted tanks to be perfect. Is that so much to ask?

55g: (Mostly) African riverine species: Alestes Chaperi, breeding pair of Kribs, and rhino pleco
30g: Newly established reef tank
10g: Planted but fishless
5g: Unplanted with various snail species
2.5g: Heavily planted with betta.
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:14 PM   #19
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Thanks for the vote of knowlage Mosaic. LOL I thank J/k with any female there color will change when there with eggs not when ready to spawn as some wil thank, mostly when with eggs. The color your wanting to pull out is not going to be hard to get fry with that color at all. If it was me I'd go ahead full steam with the breeding. One thing you find that in your fry it's going to be 50/50 on the color more of the male fry will take the females colors and vise verca with the female fry. So if the color wanting is this say a off pink and your female has that color before the color change from being with eggs. Then that colors going to be there in the male fry.
The betta will go throw 3 differnt color changes in it's life span:
1. At brith throw 2m old { So if the off pink isn't there in the fry at the early stage of life don't freak out cause it will show}
2. The fry will start showing the under colors before the top color coes way before.
{So from 2m to 5m there main color will be the under iying color say red }
3. This where they will get the colors they have for the rest of there life. At 5m the color on the betta will under go full body changes it will start taking on the top color { or main color} of it's body. This is where the off pink will really start to show up and the under color they had will disapear into the over laying color to form the main color of the betta. then by 6months of age the ture color of the betta will be in full flow.

Now if like me and trying to bred { or pull out 1 single color} the secound stage of cloring will show you the color that will come out of breeding that male/female to another of the colors your wanting to get out of the fry. Make scents hope so. it's really amatter of finding the color your wanting to bred or get in the 2nd stage of coloring. Let's see if I lost you or ya'll LOL . Ok I'm wanting soild black. Frist I would look for the black color from 2months to 5months to show up. This lets me know that the color is under laying in the ture color to come in the net stage.
So from 5m to 7m the finally color of the betta will be starting to over take the under laying color. So at 6m when the next color comes in if it's black then that's the soild color that my next fry will be. So with the color your wanting. That the female has it will come throw in the fry. Just because she doesn't show it now. Doesn't men it won't come throw in the fry. I'd give you a 90% changes that the color your wanting will be in your fry. the other 10% is going to be deturmaned by the color of the male.
Can you post a picture of the female for me and if you can get one with flash and one with out. This way I can see the under laying color nd the total color she is now. I'll bet you any amount of money that the color your looking for is the under laying color. The reason is if she had the color you wanted andit went away when she got with eggs. Then 99% of the time it's the over laying color that brightened up and covered the under laying color.
This a really really easy step to bring the ture color out of a betta when taking pictures
Here's a sample this betta here looks blue when your just looking at him in his tank.

But as you can tell when a flash was used the ture under laying color pulled out and showed more of his ture color:

Purple was his ture color. His fry came out 65% purple and 35% red with a nit of blue to all of them. Where'd the red come from it was the under laying color the male was in the early stage of stage 1 { when color was just starting to show on the fry}
Here is a even better sample. This betta I had always thought to be 3 colors red white and blue { anybody knw why I got him hint colorsLMAO LOL}

Now this male showed the 3 colors and then with a flash I noticed that 1 of the colors was a off color of red more pink then red.

Now all of his fry turned out a bright pink that showed up with the flash and under stress. Then here's afew pictures of the 3rd genaration male That I've been working on pulling the super long fins and a blood red color out in them. The normal male vail tai betta has a fin lenght of around 2 1/2 inches in lenght. At fully growen,These to males have a fin lenght of 2 3/4 to 3 inches in lenght at 5m old. Now Like I said it's easier to breed for finage then it is color. Like I've been saying color takes alot of work finding the male with the color your
looking for and a female with the same colors. Then breeding them togeather and thn finding sibling pr out of there fry with the colors. Then the same with them so on and so on down the line til both color { under laying color and over laying colors } are what your wanting in my case BALCK BABY SOILD BLACK. Never seen a black vail ail of any kind. Have in half moons ,crowntail,double tails, but not vail.
But with fin lenght it's just a mater of growen them out to 5m when there fins are lmost fully devailoped and taking that pr and doing the same so on and so on til you get the fins your wanting. In the case of these guys here I'm trying to acheve 5+ inches in total lenght from body to leading edge not to point of the fin. Right now I have a 10 females that look like males because of the lenght in there fins right at 1 to 1 1/2 inches at 5months. The males have 2 1/2 to 3inches in lenght at 5months. They will still grow up til the day they dyi. So by 1 to 1 1/2 yrs old they should be right at 3 to 31/2 inghes in total lenght not counting the points of the tail whitch could add another 1/4 inche.
Not only will you beable to pull the color your looking for but you could on down the line { line breeding } you could have a male with the color you want plus have him with super long and beautiful fins. Once I get the long fins to come out in all of the fry or at least 75 to 85% of hem. I'm going to have a new line breed spices of betta's and I'm going to call them { SUPER TAIL CROWNS } i'VE BEEN TALKING TO MENBERS OF THE BBA { BETTA BREEDERS ASSATION } AND THEY TELL ME THAT oNCE i ACHVIVE THIS LINE I can make it a ture spices of betta.
Here's a few pictures of the 3rd genaration ofblood red super tails. At 7months old there tils are the size of a adult males 2 1/2inches. The blood red one is a ture red both top and bottom colors are red and he will spawn fully red fry. Now the blue and red is 5months old and has 2inches fins. He is also a 3genartion line bred super tail.





I'm sorry for all my post just running on and on and on. I know I may have not answered your question in a launge you could understand for that i aploagizes. I just get to talking about my faverit fish and I don't just see the type of breeding I'm doing as just a hobbie. I see it more as my job and I love my job and the work I'm doing I see it as a rewarding trade. That I can learn and teachs to my kids and hopfully teachs others of this rewardig part of life That hopfully I'll be able to bring a new spices of betta to life and have others injoy them as much asI did bring them to life.
So in faster words to answer your question. The color your wanting in a male betta from your female. That color will come out in your fry and you ill get that color on a male out of the fry. I'd say your changes of getting that color of male is 75% and the other 25% will be females colored in that color.
Post a couple of pictures of the pr your wanting to bred and I'll give you a even better answer to the color thing.
Again sorry for the long reponses and running at the mouth on the typing a answer for you. LOL
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Old 06-03-2006, 04:07 AM   #20
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Hey Weasel F., just want to say your bettas look beautifull, and I admire your knowledge on this subject! Will you keep breeding with your own stock, or are you always on the lookout for new bettas that may get you even better results? I'm asking because at some point I think it would be good and healthy to add new blood to the line.

Good luck trying to breed full black bettas!
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