breeding angelfish ... are they related to rabbits???

[SerLunchbox]

Well, 8 days after their last spawn, the angelfish have spawned again. I can't get over this!! I have never seen this ever happen before. Trying to get them to be a bit more relaxed etc.... i angled my slate to about a 35 degree angle and they seemed to pass over the eggs better. Also, when i noticed their spawnign dance and agressiveness, i actually placed the tank divider in so not to stress them and hopefully relax them before the spawn. Now to hope that the male feels more secure and fertilizes more eggs. The awesome thing, as i am sure i have said before, is that the angelfish i have are great parents!! Always taking turns to ensure the eggs are fanned etc....

The only downside to the day is that my runt angelfish was killed today but i don't know by what ... it may have been from natural causes but i don't really know. Anyways ... now back to watching them be parents and to cover over the spawning side so we humans and cats don't freak them out anymore then needed!

 

[Fluff]

Congrats again SerLunchbox. I hope you gets some fry from this one.

 

[Billsgate]

Congrats! Keep us updated!!! I hope the same can be said for my keyhole cichlids, they ate the last of their eggs after 3 days, and I'm thinking they weren't fertilized. It was their first try, and I watched the female lay her eggs (I was lucky enough to be at home at the moment they decided to try it for the very first time), but I didn't see my male fertilize them.

I really hope you're succesfull at this! It would be great documentation for this site if you could keep a report on their behaviour and raising of the fry. That way we can always reffer people to you if they are trying the same thing

 

[SerLunchbox]

Thanks Billsgate and Fluff The male and fermale angels are almost 17 hours into the egg hatching process, both are taking turns sleeping and fanning the eggs. What i mean by this is the male will be awake for 40 mintes to 2 hours fanning the eggs then nudge the female who then takes her turn while the male sleeps. The fact that they are cut off from the rest of the tank really helps it seems. Also after Toirtis told me, it is not uncommon for the male to not produce enough sperm to fertilize all the eggs. I really noticed this when i got up this morning and there were about 12 eggs a milky white coloration. So we will see how it all goes from now on. I have aso noticed that the parents are really great when it comes to cleaning off any bacteria that may form on the eggs. I have noticed this when a still healthy egg is in close proximity and they pick away at the fungused egg. This is all really interesting to me. Updates will be coming

 

[Toirtis]

Great....now you will have babies for the March auction.

 

[SerLunchbox]

Well, it is almost 23 hours into it and they are still doing a great job!! Picking off the bad eggs, fanning the eggs and generally being GREAT parents!! This is just awesome to see. I keep reading so many horror stories about people who have a breeding pair that just annihilate their eggs! Feeding them very lightly now and they seem to show a little interest in food ... mostly on the eggs though.

Great....now you will have babies for the March auction.

Probably ... something has to go with the skimmer

 

[SerLunchbox]

So ... just got home from a meeting and it is officially 32 hours into the hatching of the eggs. I expect to see some action coming up soon. There have been a total loss of about 36 eggs so far, but out of apx 200 that isn't too bad. The parents are still being awesome in their cleaning of the eggs and taking turns sleeping and fanning. When i peeked in on them the male was sleeping (i think ... he was off in the corner and barely moving) while the female was fanning the eggs. They are taking all the white eggs off in fine style. Here is hoping his productivity of fertilizing the eggs has improved.

 

[SerLunchbox]

just about 9:30am and all is somewhat well. This marks it at 42 1/2 hours into the egg hatching. And it seems to have happened again. I think i have to give my male angelfish some tips. I don't think he is producing enough sperm to fully fertilize all the eggs. there are some eggs left ... unsure of how many, but there are still some. I know it takes him some time to get it right but wowzers ... i would have thought 2 times at most. I think i may have to eventually put them in their own tank. Not a bad idea but it is up to my darling and loving fiancée to agree to it now.

**edit** 8 eggs remain .... if nothing comes from this like the last one i am just gonna leave them in the community tank and let their eggs be eaten.

 

[Billsgate]

I would not give up that fast...give them some more tries, it isn't easy being a parent, especially when you are in an unnatural enviroment. Eventually they'll get it right
I'm pretty sure about that.

 

[FishLover14]

Congrats!!!!!

 

[SerLunchbox]

well, there are no eggs left. I don't know what to do anymore ... it really sucks

 

[Billsgate]

I know it's frustrating, but I really think you can do it. All you have to do is put in the divider once they have eggs, and apart from that keep some liquifry handy. Don't hope for it too much, you'll be dissapointed if the eggs all get eaten again. Just leave them be when they have eggs and they'll get it right at some point. Two tries isn't the end of the world
Maybe check your water parameters and see if they're suitable for breeding angels? The fact that they lay eggs doesn't necesairly mean that the water is ideal for the eggs to hatch. Although I doubt that is the problem. Just give them some time
And if you decide not to, fine as well, I just think it would be really fun for you to see that they eventually get it right.

 

[Toirtis]

well, there are no eggs left. I don't know what to do anymore ...

Well, it ain't gonna be omlettes for brekkie!

Try, try again....

 

[Wizzard~Of~Ozz]

On a bright note, they are doing all the work, so where's the harm in trying

Keep up with it, they'll get the hang of it.

 

[Fluff]

Sorry SerLunchbox.

 

[cdawson]

well, there are no eggs left. I don't know what to do anymore ... it really sucks

patience, my angel pair took 8 months to get it right, after eating all of the eggs after about one night for 7 months they all of sudden got to the second day. I thought "ok, now we're getting somewhere". Next thing I know they're back to eating them after one night. I had given up and devoted all my attention to getting my Apistogramma Iniridae to spawn and then WHAM! Last wednesday after the water change they spawned again, they made to the second night, third night, then...WRIGGLERS!
6 days later they became free swimming (last night) and there are about 70 fry which isn't bad for the first time.

The problem is they're artificially reared and not raised by their parents, they pretty much retarded and don't have any idea what they're doing when it comes to raising eggs and fry. They're forced to learn through trial and error. Reason being is that angels raised by parents will somehow at that young of an age learn from the parents while they're raised by them. Statistics show that angels raised by thier parents spawn earlier in life and produce viable batches of young early in their lives as well.


Good luck, just remember it will take time but it will happen eventually. Unless of course you have a lesbian pair. Which angels are notorious for. Next time they're spawning watch the male and make sure there is actually sperm being released from his papilla.

 

[SerLunchbox]

Next time they're spawning watch the male and make sure there is actually sperm being released from his papilla.

How would i notice this? Would there be noticeable streams of sperm or what?

 

[fearlessfisch]

I thought i had a spawning pair for a while, but the eggs never got fertilized. Then one day the angel i thought was the male laid his own batch of eggs....right across the tank! Turns out i had two females just carrying out the spawning dance--i'd never known that this happens from time to time.

The sad part is that the second female's egg laying ruined what had been a beautiful friendship between them. From that day on the original female attacked the "new" female viciously, to the point that i had to take her out of the tank to save her life.

I hope yours are actually male and female, and that they get the hang of it soon. There's nothing more wonderful to watch in a fishtank, IMO.

 

[cdawson]

You can see a stream of sperm comming from the male if you look closely. If your tank is light poorly or they're just in a darker area try using a flashlight to see the sperm. Usually it'll light right up in the beam of the flashlight.

IMO I thought that watching all of my apistos raise their fry was exciting, no matter how many times I saw it. When I witnessed from day one of my angels spawning, caring for the eggs, raising the wrigglers and now caring for the free swimming fry I can say that spawning angels is something I want to get more into. Maybe even make a business out of it (along with discus, and african & SA dwarfs) of course =)

There's a huge aquarium following in vancouver here, but no local hatcheries for tropicals.

 

[SerLunchbox]

well, i know for a fact that it is a male and female from the papilla's The females is very broad and pink when it is protruded whereas the males papilla is thin and black to be honest. The pair does the ritualistic dance of the female laying the eggs followed by the male swimming up and rubbing his papilla across and over the eggs. It is very tight to the slate the eggs are on (and sometimes the female nudges him to get certain eggs he missed which i thought was cool). I am never quite sure if he actually releases any sperm lately but i know that he did from the last spawn (eggs were jumping and did get a couple wigglers) but this last spawn was like 2 steps backwards. I know that these angels are not wild caught and have been bred many times over when in the breeding farms. The only thing i can think is that the water i use has too high of a pH for the sperm to penetrate the eggs. My pH is 7.6 CONSTANT with my GH of 10.5 and a KH of 9.5.

I heard somewhere that a pH of 7.6 will not allow the males sperm to penetrate the eggs to fertilize them. I don't really have the means to get any RO/DI water and am constantly adding more and more wood and plants to naturally lower the pH (i don't believe in using chemicals to buffer the water). As you can see by my signature, i keep the angels with all the other species of fish (what i do is actually section them off in the tank so that they can have some privacy).

I agree that it is really cool watching the angels care for their eggs. It is just great. Anyways, maybe someone can put a rumor to rest. Is it true that if a male does not fertilize any eggs, they will turn a milky white color after only a few hours. The reason i ask is that a majority of my eggs (currently) turn that milky white color after about 36 hours.

As for the lesbian pair, i am witness to that as well as i had 2 very young adult females that have paired off in my tank. both have protruding female papilla. Interesting to watch ... was really hoping they would be a male and female because they had a trait i would have liked to breed ... ah well ... i am more concerned with getting my current pair to breed properly and actually have more fry survive.