Expert Ram Breeders, Heed my Call!

[JDogg]

i think my pair of GBR are preparing to breed, what should i do...

Female is pink in the belly, ovipositor is visible, they are picking at the gravel...

i have a 10 gallon i am filling as i type, i was going to be a breeder for guppies and snails... then i noticed the rams in my 75.

first batch for the pair i am sure...fry will never survive, unless pair is VERY protective from the get go

tank is well planted, and i do not think i can get to the eggs (if they do end up laying) without a major tear down! should i try to entice the pair out and put them in the 10, but the water params will be not so good tank is not cycled yet 8O

HELP!

[crazyred]

LOL, I think, depending on the age of your rams, you might have to let them have several spawns before they get it right. My rams spawned 3 times before their first success. I just waited and watched and when I was sure the eggs were fertilized, I waited until they started moving before I removed them to my 10 gallon breeder tank. You should be able to move some filter material in this case and not worry about a cycle. GBR eggs & fry don't put out a whole lot of ammonia. I currently have babies from 3 different spawns growing in my 10. The 1st batch is almost big enough to sex. Also, my rams have laid eggs again and I will probably remove them in a few days.....when they start moving.

I would take a wait and see approach for now. They will fiercly guard their eggs....don't worry, and if the eggs get to the point where they start to move, then you're goo to go and remove them. IMO.

[JDogg]

Originally Posted by crazyred

LOL, I think, depending on the age of your rams, you might have to let them have several spawns before they get it right. My rams spawned 3 times before their first success. I just waited and watched and when I was sure the eggs were fertilized, I waited until they started moving before I removed them to my 10 gallon breeder tank. You should be able to move some filter material in this case and not worry about a cycle. GBR eggs & fry don't put out a whole lot of ammonia. I currently have babies from 3 different spawns growing in my 10. The 1st batch is almost big enough to sex. Also, my rams have laid eggs again and I will probably remove them in a few days.....when they start moving.

I would take a wait and see approach for now. They will fiercly guard their eggs....don't worry, and if the eggs get to the point where they start to move, then you're goo to go and remove them. IMO.

ok, i was just so excited, i was a little paniced..lol

not really set up to breed rams...but i will do my best it they do it on there own

[crazyred]

Yes, it's quite a rush that first time they lay eggs and you have no idea what to do. LOL Breeding rams takes patience. They're pretty good parents....at least mine are, but I have several other fish that would gladly devour newly hatched rams, so I always take the eggs out, but only after they start wiggling. However, they do have to have a few practice runs before they get it right.....especially if they're juvies like mine were. My ram couple have it down now. I think these two are trying to single handly trying to repopulate the ram world. LOL

Good luck with yours, and keep us updated.

[Lonewolfblue]

Another thing too is if you have water in the 10G, when you are ready to move the egg, remove 50% of the water, and fill with water from the 75G. This will eliminate the need to acclimate the eggs. Then take a small bown or container and keep the eggs submerged while you transfer them. Allowing the eggs to the air may not kill them, but it will kick-start some fungus. And when you move the eggs to the 10G, place 10ml Hydrogen Peroxide to the tank, then after that, do 5ml doses 2x daily til the eggs hatch.

[JDogg]

now that i think about it i maybe have unthinkingly jump started this...

i have been feeding my DP frozen bloodworms and mysis flies. i always thaw to much so i put the extra in the 75 for those fish to have a treat.... perhaps i unintentionally conditioned them to breed

Update: I HAVE EGGS, I HAVE EGGS, I HAVE EGGS, I HAVE EGGS!!!! WoooHooo

the eggs were layed near the back of the tank, below some driftwood with roots, if you look at this picture you can just make out the driftwood, at the back left side if the tank, behind the wisteria, now imagine that 3x more overgrown with plants


i will try to get a better picture tonight... i have no idea of how to get to them without ripping everything apart if i decide to try to put them in the in the ten...

what color should they be? it is hard to tell since the gravel is red-brown, but the eggs appear to be pinkish at this point (is that a good color?)

[crazyred]

My eggs always start out sort of whitish color and, if fertilized, they turn sort of a beige transparent color in 3-4 days and you can see a black slit in there which is the baby. Yours may just look pink because of your gravel.

I've never had remove eggs from the substrate because my rams always laid on either a leaf of my amazon sword or on top of my CO2 diffuser (where their current batch is now), so I always had an easy way to take them out. LWB could give you tips on taking eggs off of the substrate.....I think he's done it successfully.

[JDogg]

Originally Posted by crazyred

My eggs always start out sort of whitish color and, if fertilized, they turn sort of a beige transparent color in 3-4 days and you can see a black slit in there which is the baby. Yours may just look pink because of your gravel.

I've never had remove eggs from the substrate because my rams always laid on either a leaf of my amazon sword or on top of my CO2 diffuser (where their current batch is now), so I always had an easy way to take them out. LWB could give you tips on taking eggs off of the substrate.....I think he's done it successfully.

ok

[Lonewolfblue]

Yes, you can condition the fish to breed by feeding bloodworms. Works every time with the GBR's.

[JDogg]

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

Yes, you can condition the fish to breed by feeding bloodworms. Works every time with the GBR's.

any ideas on hwo to get the eggs off the substrate?

[Lonewolfblue]

When mine was in the Eco Complete, I used a large spoon and slowly tok the upper layer of substrate off with the eggs. Not an easy task.

[JDogg]

eggs are gone... oh well it was there first try...

[JDogg]

ok i have a few people telling me that ram eggs will NEVER fertilize in hard water... PH 6.8 KH 13 degrees.... i know that some of you have has sucessful spawns in hard water...right???

[crazyred]

Absolutely!! My gH reading is 300 ppm = 19 deg. general hardness. My pH is roughly 7.2 and my kH sits in the 80 ppm range. My fish have successfully spawned several times and I'm raising their fry in the exact same water. Some of the fry are now getting big enough to sex and are showing color and markings.

My ram couple were tank bred in New Jersey (I think) in much softer water. I doubt wild caught rams would have this kind of success, but tank bred rams shouldn't have a problem. What is you gH reading?

[JDogg]

Originally Posted by crazyred

Absolutely!! My gH reading is 300 ppm = 19 deg. general hardness. My pH is roughly 7.2 and my kH sits in the 80 ppm range. My fish have successfully spawned several times and I'm raising their fry in the exact same water. Some of the fry are now getting big enough to sex and are showing color and markings.

My ram couple were tank bred in New Jersey (I think) in much softer water. I doubt wild caught rams would have this kind of success, but tank bred rams shouldn't have a problem. What is you gH reading?

GH was about 22 degrees last time i checked

[crazyred]

Well, like I said, my water is around 300 ppm which is pretty darn hard and my rams have had total success. It did take them at least three tries before they got it right so don't give up on them yet. I was getting disappointed after three unsuccessful spawns, but my patience paid off in the end as I 've got a 10 gallon tank full of little ram babies!!

[JDogg]

i added a couple of small terra cotta pots to the tank, i am hoping that will lay thee eggs in there next time they try to spawn... that should be easier to transferee the eggs to another tank

[bs6749]

Mine never liked the pots but they have laid several times on slate and they seem to prefer broader leaved plants such as swords. Just clip off the leaf and you are ready to transfer. Simple as that.

[crazyred]

I agree...mine prefer perfectly flat surfaces. They laid 2 or 3 times smack on top of my CO23 diffuser which is perfectly square and flat, and the other times they laid on a horizontally positioned amazon sword leaf. The pots might work though.

[Lonewolfblue]

Most of mine prefer in the gravel, lol. No matter how many flat surfaces I put in there.