Good or bad sign? Betta breeding

[pattyfurg]

My female betta Uma is in my breeding tank with my male Tommy. He built a MASSIVE bubble nest in a styrophome cup and when I let Uma out of the chimney she went strait to the bubble nest totally pushing tommy out of the way and Tommy just let her. Then she swam away but was staying close to the nest. Tommy is swimming vertically under the bubble nest :S is this normal?

[pistolero]

"Normal" doesn't really apply to Betta spawning. None of them are normal.

It is good that they haven't tried to tear each other up. Betta's breeding can get pretty violent. He probably won't breed with her as long as they are acting like that. The female has to take a submissive posture. I have tried to breed several different pairs of Bettas. One female I had wouldn't submit to any male I tried and she never bred. She always got fat and full of eggs but she was too bullheaded and mean to breed.

First, ideally, you condition both prospective parents for a couple of weeks on live and or frozen bloodworms, black worms, daphnia, etc.

What is supposed to happen next is, you put the female in his breeding tank where they can't really get to each other but they can see each other. Usually this is done by putting the female in the breeding tank in a glass "chimney" for 2 or 3 days. The sight of the female in close proximity prompts the male to make the nest ready. The sight of the male for the female causes her to grow the eggs ready. All during these few days they will do much displaying and dancing for each other.

Also you need to exchange the water from the outside breeding tank and the water the female is in inside the chimney, but not let the fish actually in the same water. The reason for this is that there are pheremones that the male gives off that actually cause the eggs the female is carrying to be able to mature and "ripen" enough to become fertile.

The actual breeding tank should either be heavily planted or have lots of artificial caves/hiding spots, etc. When they get together it can get pretty hairy and they often will injure and possibly kill each other if there isn't plenty of escape routes.

When the eggs in the female are ripe and she is trying to jump out of the chimney and get to the male you can try letting her out. Usually the first few actual in person meetings with the male are somewhat violent, it is normal for them to do their crazy little dance and fight a little back and forth, but basically the point is for him to establish his dominance over her, if the female accepts, she takes a submissive stance (fins clamped, head down) under the bubble nest.


If this is not what happens, say they continue to fight too violently after several meetings, or the male still runs from the female after several meetings, get the female out of the breeding tank.

TO BE CONTINUED....

[pistolero]

Once they decide to make nice and do the deal, they'll do the most beautiful dance around each other a few times and the male will take her in an embrace and flip her upside down and basically squeeze a batch of eggs out and fertilizes them as they emerge. He then gathers the fertilized eggs in his mouth, as the female floats in a kind of coma, and spits the fertilized eggs up into the bubble nest. When the female recovers, they repeat the dance, over and over until she basically is unable to continue producing eggs. When the female ceases to produce eggs the male will again become belligerent to her, driving her from the nest, and seeing that they are in a confined environment, the breeding tank, it is best to remove her immediately.

The males attention now goes right to tending the nest. The eggs develop into fry over about 24 hours. During this time the male stays directly under the nest, any eggs/fry that fall he gathers in his mouth and puts back up in the bubble nest. When the fry first hatch, they will still remain at the nest for another day or so, occasionally falling out only to be put back in place by the diligent daddy.

[pistolero]

I am fairly convinced that the seemingly over violent ritual that takes place when the female comes to the males nest is mostly for one simple reason.

These fish are obviously aggressive to start with. HEY WE NAMED THEM "FIGHTING FISH" FOR A REASON.

Firstly, females are much more likely to be egg/fry eaters than the males that stay to raise the fry, and if the male is unable to drive the female away after spawning, he would be unable to keep her from eating all the fruits of the effort they just went through. Therefore he has little interest in mating with any female that he can't drive away from his nest as soon as she is done laying her eggs. So especially in a captive situation as our aquariums I think we should look at breeding Bettas like this: as far as the male is concerned the only reason he needs a female around is for one thing, TO LAY EGGS. If she comes around and she's not ready to lay eggs, there will be trouble. If she is ready to lay eggs he'll do the dance, collect them, etc. As soon as she is done making eggs she needs to go, before she decides to start eating the babies. If she doesn't get out soon, there will be trouble. Bettas don't mess around.

[abrahamavelar]

Pretty good advice, I have stccesfully breed bettas b4 also if u put 2 or more femalea in cups inside the tank he will choose one n she will be more submisive

[pattyfurg]

Originally Posted by pistolero

I am fairly convinced that the seemingly over violent ritual that takes place when the female comes to the males nest is mostly for one simple reason.

These fish are obviously aggressive to start with. HEY WE NAMED THEM "FIGHTING FISH" FOR A REASON.

Firstly, females are much more likely to be egg/fry eaters than the males that stay to raise the fry, and if the male is unable to drive the female away after spawning, he would be unable to keep her from eating all the fruits of the effort they just went through. Therefore he has little interest in mating with any female that he can't drive away from his nest as soon as she is done laying her eggs. So especially in a captive situation as our aquariums I think we should look at breeding Bettas like this: as far as the male is concerned the only reason he needs a female around is for one thing, TO LAY EGGS. If she comes around and she's not ready to lay eggs, there will be trouble. If she is ready to lay eggs he'll do the dance, collect them, etc. As soon as she is done making eggs she needs to go, before she decides to start eating the babies. If she doesn't get out soon, there will be trouble. Bettas don't mess around.

Something really weird just happened lol I put my female in a new tank and she went near the filter and released her eggs...? Is that meant to happens :S

[abrahamavelar]

I dont think so also during the breeding I would turn off the filter

[pistolero]

Originally Posted by pattyfurg

Something really weird just happened lol I put my female in a new tank and she went near the filter and released her eggs...? Is that meant to happens :S

They have to drop sometime, if they don't spawn they will just drop them. The female I referred to above would get huge fat full of them, but she would beat up any male trying to spawn with her. So I quit trying with her. Every few months she would swell up then drop the eggs and eat them.
What happened in the tank with the male while she was still in there?

[pattyfurg]

Originally Posted by pistolero

They have to drop sometime, if they don't spawn they will just drop them. The female I referred to above would get huge fat full of them, but she would beat up any male trying to spawn with her. So I quit trying with her. Every few months she would swell up then drop the eggs and eat them.
What happened in the tank with the male while she was still in there?

After she dropped some eggs I put her straight in with the male and they did it!! I was so happy there were about 200 eggs!!

[pistolero]

Originally Posted by pattyfurg

After she dropped some eggs I put her straight in with the male and they did it!! I was so happy there were about 200 eggs!!

Sweet. Did you get to see it happen?

[pattyfurg]

Originally Posted by pistolero

Sweet. Did you get to see it happen?

Yeah I recorded it but i can't post it I can only see like 20 eggs does that mean he ate them or re they just deeper in the bubbles?

[abrahamavelar]

probably deeper he wont eat them right away u should get him out when they start to free swim

[pattyfurg]

Originally Posted by abrahamavelar

probably deeper he wont eat them right away u should get him out when they start to free swim

When they start to free swim can I move the fry to a different tank that I filtered because the one they're in now is getting really cloudy because it's not filtered and the other tank is much bigger and the heater is more accurate :/

[abrahamavelar]

Well I would recomend using a sponge filter they might get sucked and if u can catch them all make sure u have a seeded filter and perfect water quality and a sponge on the intake

[pattyfurg]

Originally Posted by abrahamavelar

Well I would recomend using a sponge filter they might get sucked and if u can catch them all make sure u have a seeded filter and perfect water quality and a sponge on the intake

I have an inbuilt filter in the tank I want to put it in but it's a pain in the ***!!!

[abrahamavelar]

Ohhhhh