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Old 02-09-2006, 05:07 PM   #1
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Holy shiznits I think I have eggs ._.

I wanted to breed bettas so I got my female Kichi a boyfriend, Midnight, and I'm trying to figure out why he's so territorial of his weeds and styrofoam bowl and I look in at the small clump of bubbles and I can swear I see a mass of white eggs.... That was fast, I just put him in there a couple days ago and I didn't keep them apart either. I was wondering why he's like fighting off even my 3 mollies that are in there because he wasn't doing that the other day and he's only protecting that one area and once he chases either Kichi or another fish away he goes back to the section .....YAY!


edit: I SEE EGGS!... I still think that was really fast.....but YAY! I hope they're fertilized ^_____^

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Old 02-09-2006, 07:05 PM   #2
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Congrats!

Do you want to raise up the fry? If so there are a few things you'll have to do quickly
1. Get the heat up to 78 in the tank.
2. Get a started microworm culture.
3. Divide off the section of the tank with poppa and the nest, or remove all other fish.
4. Remove all plants or decorations from under the nest, and place a piece of acrylic or glass on top of the substrate.
5. Hard boil 2 eggs, crush the yolks into warm water, mix/squeeze into a paste and put it in ice cube trays in the freezer.
6. Set up a 10 gallon tank with 6 inches of water (of the same parameters as the tank poppa and momma are in) with a sponge filter and heater set at 78-80F. Bare tank, no deco or substrate. This is for fry growout, but it needs cycled so it's important to set it up ASAP.

When/if they hatch, they will fall like rain from the nest. This is why the acrylic is on the gravel under the nest. Poppa will franticly scoop them up and spit them back into the bubbles. Don't attempt to feed him until his ordeal is over BTW. He won't be interested. Do nothing until you see the fry free swimming. At this point, transfer them via a turkey baster into their growout tank. Important not to expose them to air or the surface of a net. Feed them several times a day, using the frozen egg yolk mix and some microworms. Siphon off the bottom every day, and change 50% of the water 3 times a week. They grow very quickly, and at 1/2" they need separated into their own small containers. I use mason jars for this. Keep them in a heated room (75F or higher is best), feed 2x daily, 100% water change every third day.

Now for the ugly reality part - culling.
It's very important to harshly cull betta fry. Any fish with deformities, or odd swimming behavior should be euthanized. Imagine an adult male with mishaped finnage or a deformed swimbladder trying to survive and this step will be easier to do. I also cull listless fish or finicky eaters, simply because I don't have time or resources to care for fish who will likely not survive to adulthood anyway. At 3 months the fish are ready to go to their new homes. At this point, since you have a microworm culture and a fry growout tank, you might as well select a sibling pair (or two) with exceptional finnage or coloration and try to line breed a show winner!

If you already knew this, I apologize for rambling. I just wanted to share whats been working for me for years, and hopefully can point someone else in a direction that works for them. Good luck with your betta spawn, and anything I can do to help feel free to holler at me.
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:41 PM   #3
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Don't have a 10 gal tank. All my other fish are in that tank right now and they're all fry eaters..I don't have any plain acrylic either, in fact my 20 gal (I know, I did it backwards >__< but it was easier to make the current barely at all because that filter can tilt to the side) was used to breed them and I'm afraid to touch the plants because they're directly under the bubble nest under the styrofoam bowl and I have a small patch of rocks under where he decided to plant them. I don't think I'll have issues with culling the baby bettas, I do it with my mollies a lot. ......what the heck are microworms? x.x

I've read up a bit on betta breeding but I don't know ALL that much, I learned how but not how to raise lol. Could I just scoop the rocks outof the bottom and then just move the other fish and put a veil thing over the whisper filter I have? We do that at school for guppies and whatever. ...is the egg yolks food? I'm assuming the male will eventually start picking at them once they hatch...The tank's at 82F I think because I read that's what temp they needed to breed at 80-82
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Old 02-09-2006, 10:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puriti
Don't have a 10 gal tank. All my other fish are in that tank right now and they're all fry eaters..
Maybe you can buy a rubbermaid (off brand one of course :P ) and set it up instead? You'll really need something with the footprint of a 10 gallon (bigger is better, but 10 gallon min) for a grow out tank. You'll understand when you see the fry. Very tiny and lots of them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Puriti
I don't have any plain acrylic either, in fact my 20 gal (I know, I did it backwards >__< but it was easier to make the current barely at all because that filter can tilt to the side) was used to breed them and I'm afraid to touch the plants because they're directly under the bubble nest under the styrofoam bowl and I have a small patch of rocks under where he decided to plant them...
The male needs a smooth surface to easily find and grab the fry when they wiggle out of the nest. Until they are about 7 days old, they'll die out of the bubbles, as they are born with an undeveloped swim bladder and can't get to the surface to breathe. Once they are free swimming it's not as important, but still handy to have a bare bottom for cleaning purposes and so they fry don't get stuck between pieces of substrate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puriti
I don't think I'll have issues with culling the baby bettas, I do it with my mollies a lot. ......what the heck are microworms? x.x ...
Good. Bettas are most often line bred and require heavy culling to keep the population strong. Heavy hands here are best for the entire hobby.

Microworms are very tiny worms that live off grains. They are about the only live food small enough for betta fry to eat. Even baby brine shrimp are too big. Aquabid is a good place to find started microworm cultures. Don't worry, it's super easy to raise them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puriti
I've read up a bit on betta breeding but I don't know ALL that much, I learned how but not how to raise lol. Could I just scoop the rocks outof the bottom and then just move the other fish and put a veil thing over the whisper filter I have? We do that at school for guppies and whatever.
Yes, you could do that. You'll also have to remove poppa betta once the fry are free swimming. Slow down the filter as much as possible and place a sponge over the intake. Realize though, you'll have to keep the other fish somewhere for at least 6 weeks while the fry are developing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Puriti
...is the egg yolks food?
Yes. The hard boiled egg yolk will dissolve in the tank and the fry will eat it. It's important to supplement this with live food as well for faster growth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puriti
I'm assuming the male will eventually start picking at them once they hatch...The tank's at 82F I think because I read that's what temp they needed to breed at 80-82
There's a chance the poppa will eat them as soon as they hatch. Some betta males are also egg eaters. You won't know about these problems until it's too late though. Most of the time male bettas are excellent daddys. When the fry are free swimming, the poppa will eat them, so he has to leave the tank too.

82F is just fine. When you see the eggs have hatched, cover the top of the tank with saran wrap for the first week so the air above the tank stays warm as well. This is so the babies don't get "betta pneumonia" from breathing air much colder than the water they are in. The fry will hatch faster and grow faster in water that warm, so it's a good trade off. Next time, set the temp to 78F and you won't have to cover the tank top for the first week.

I know it all sounds like a lot of work, and it is. There are 2 payoff though -
1. You've successfully bred a fish that everyone thinks is beautiful, and very few people can/will breed. Sort of like bragging rights.
2. A 3 month old standard veiltail betta is worth about a buck wholesale, easy to move, and you can get about 200 saleable fry from a spawn. Your costs for housing them, heating them, and feeding them are covered. Can't say that about very many freshwater fish!
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:57 PM   #5
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Well, I have had a female lay eggs before, but the male was oblivious to it and she just ate them lol. All I have in the tank right now is.... female and male betta, 3 mollies (I can't really put two in there because my male would inbreed them), 3 cory cats, a CAE, and 2 otos. I moved all my bigger fry eaters out of the tank. I know I shouldn't do this but my 10 gal will be overstocked if I keep the fry in the 20 gal, but if I can last months with a heavily overstocked tank (Those who know me on here will tell you that lol) I think they can last 6 weeks....lol
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:13 AM   #6
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>__< eep! in the process of trying to scrape the rocks out with a net I hit the styrofoam thingy and he's either collecting or eating the eggs but part of the bubble nest was wrecked @__@ i feel bad now...and now there's a bunch of eggs on the floor of the tank and he's not seein em....There's still eggs but still >__<
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:27 AM   #7
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I hope some of the eggs stayed in the nest for you. Look at it this way - you're ready for next time!
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Old 02-10-2006, 06:38 AM   #8
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Yeah, I looked this morning and I think he ate the rest of them because he's not even defending the bowl anymore and I don't see the bubblenest anymore. How long should I wait before I breed them again?
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:45 AM   #9
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It's usally best to wait for at least 3 weeks before breeding again. I wait a month before breeding the femae. This gives her time to grow her tail and fins out again. I have had the male start making a new bubble nest in a couple of days. I have also had a male breed again in as little as a week.
But this is not the normal thing to do. The male well be so tired from the frist breeding that he'll just wan to rest for awhile before going again. This takes alot out of the male. Even the female takes abeatting whie spawing. So I'd wait at least 3 weeks before rebreeding him.
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:42 PM   #10
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Well there are some eggs in a new bubble nest so I don't exactly know where they came from..lol
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:03 PM   #11
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And now they're gone again and the male's eating. lol
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Old 02-10-2006, 09:08 PM   #12
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Could be what he slavaged form the last nest. If you don't see fry in 3 days take a net and scoop out his nest. This way dead eggs don't pollute the tank.

Weasel is right on the money. I actually give a male 6 weeks of rest, females 4. IMO during this time-out it's important for them not to even see another betta. If the female is beat up, add some MelaFlex to her water. That works like magic juice for me.

On a positive note, I've got a BEAUTIFUL Black Orchid Crowntail building his nest and a Cambodian CT female looking interested in her chimney.

Here's a pic of the male from last week:

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Old 02-11-2006, 06:08 AM   #13
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Hey hillbilly , Got any black Crown tail males your not using. LOL I've been looking for a male steel black or total black to bred to a female soild white vail tail. I'm wanting to get me a full masked black comb tail or a black and white one.
I want to bred and raise this one myself and not buy it. You know what i mean. It's easy to go out and buy one but more fun to home grow one. LOL I've looked on aquabid and us poor folks can't afford those high price for male,transhiper,u.s. carrier, the whole kit and capoodle like that. LOL
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:35 AM   #14
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No extras ATM, but if all goes well in 5 or 6 weeks I should have some, as well as some Giant black Plakats.
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Old 02-11-2006, 09:25 AM   #15
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Nope the eggs and bubblenest is completely gone, I think he ate the rest of the eggs up there and my cories ate the eggs on the floor. I have to syphon anyways, I can see leftover debris down there x3

He was eating bloodworms yesterday and he's not even near the "nest" anymore so I think he's done lol I'll just slink some of my fish back into the 20 and NEXT TIME I'll put the BETTAS in the 10 gal and everything ELSE in the 20 >__< lol
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Old 02-11-2006, 10:24 AM   #16
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Sorry to hear about that Puriti. At least everyone gota nice meal out of it

I really reccomend you get a 2.5 gallon tank and set it up as a dedicated betta breeding tank, as well as a plan for fry growout if you want to try again. It will mean the difference between success and failure breeding these challenging fish.
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Old 02-11-2006, 10:55 AM   #17
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No extras ATM, but if all goes well in 5 or 6 weeks I should have some, as well as some Giant black Plakats.
Oh yea keep me in mind I'm all for some Black plakats! Anything soild black or steel black combo works for me.

I agee with the getting the extra tank just for the male 100% it will insure he spaws more and the nest building will get bigger and better not having to worrie about the other fish coming to close and having to defend the area from them.
Breeding will be alot better also with no other fish around o intervear with the spawing couple. Then once the eggs have been layed in the nes he's all alone to care for the young when they hatch. Then your going to get more fry biger nest. More spawing from the male.
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:06 PM   #18
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I have a 2.5 gal tank I just have to clean it out lol I can use the 10 gal for a growout tank, the 20 will just be overstocked a bit but it's better than the 10 gal being overstocked >___< I think I'm also going to get another breeding pair today so I can try again because it was fun even though I didn't expect it to happen so quickly. Is there a way to tell if the eggs were fertilized other than if they hatch? would the male be defending unfertilized eggs anyhow? .__.
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Old 02-11-2006, 08:44 PM   #19
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If they are in the nest chances are they were fertilized. The male has to inspect and place each egg into the nest while they spawn. Unfertilized eggs get fuzzy after about 12 hours, but you'll never see it in the nest. As a rule I discard any nest that doesn't hatch out in 4 days.
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Old 02-12-2006, 06:49 AM   #20
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My male Crown tail male { CT } will eat any fuzz eggs. After about 12hrs. when the fuzz eggs start to show. What kinda Betta are you breeding is it a VT {vail tail } ? You mit have told us and I just didn't see it.
I went into town yesterday to get a new bulb for one of my tanks and the LFS had two double tail males but no DT females. He also had a green/red HMP {half moon plakats }male with a yellow steel female HM. I started to get them but didn't so now I'm kicking my self. Cause I 've wanted a HMP for awhile now but can never find them here and here was a pair and I didn't get them.
I just didn't thank a green/red went with a yellow steel. It'd be to much of a pain to get the two differnt colors to breed. SO I walked away from them. Now I'm thanking I should go back today and get them. I want a HMP but the diffacaltie Of breeding the two off colors like that out wights the want. { I thank anyway }
Plus I've never had much luck with breeding out side the color scem to much. Like I have 4 white female VT's and 2 white female CT's and I havn't ever got the males to breed with them if there is any blue or red in the males. I want this blue/red male Ct to breed with one of the white VT's . Just to see if i could get a red/white and blue comb tail. LOL
But geting my white females to breed is like pulling teeth. it hurts like hell and I just can't bring myself to do either. LOL Just remnber puriti if your cross breeding { I call it that don't know why but do LOL } a CT male with a VT female the CT is going to be a lot meaner in the breeding and more aggrasive in the breeding. Then say a VT male will be.
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