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Old 06-21-2007, 08:28 AM   #21
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I'm really impressed! Congrats and WELL DONE!

I have tons of questions. What size tank? pH? Do you know the conductivity of your water? How much, and how often are you changing water?

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Old 06-21-2007, 02:09 PM   #22
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its a twenty gallon,

The ph is around 6.8.
I don't know what the conductivity is or what you mean?
I try to do water changes every 2-3 days, 5-10 gallons
I follow what i read and it says not to change water while there are eggs in there. And the parents keep laying eggs.
So its hard to follow the guide lines.

Also there is gravel in there and a regular filter.
The parents are fed a NLS discus spectrum /bloodworms/brine shrimp diet.
Parents are minding to both the eggs and the babies and taking turns.
Babies are thriving and growing and have not had any losses.
Except i think when they started swimming

The only thing i know for sure is there is a extremely low hatch rate.
Thinking it has something to do with discus buffer i use, so i am trying to slowly stop using it.

Not sure if i should use something else or whats doing it.

I also don't want to change anything out while there are babies or eggs in there, to stress out the babies or the young. And this was truly unexpected.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:24 PM   #23
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They are growing nicely, I can clearly see the one you call fatso, LOL he is adorable.
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Old 06-23-2007, 05:53 AM   #24
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Low hatch rate and conductivity.

Water which contains a TDS (total disolved solids), higher than 120ppm will cause the egg shell to be abnormally hard. This makes it difficult for the sperm to penetrate the shell and become fertilized.

Discus breeders often use a mix of RO and tap water to control the amount of TDS in the breeding tank. A TDS meter would be a valuable tool. It's an electronic probe which measures the conductivity of your water.
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Old 06-23-2007, 10:07 AM   #25
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So my best bet would be an RO unit?
Would you suggest stopping using Discus Buffer all togther(slowly tho)
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Old 06-23-2007, 11:11 AM   #26
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You could also use distilled water, which is the same end result (nearly pure water) that RO filtration produces. The only difference is in the process that is taken to get to "pure water". Distilled water may be a little more expensive but it is readily available.

An RO unit may be worth looking into though for something like discus, which you will need to use often as you do water changes frequently.

I have a question about the discus buffer: at what pH range is it supposed to keep the water in the tank? I am assuming on the acidic side since that is where your water is currently. Also, what are the ingredients of the "buffer solution" in the bottle? I doubt that the buffer is doing anything detrimental to the eggs. It seems, in my experience with GBR's, that the older the fish get, the more eggs I get to hatch.
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Old 06-23-2007, 12:19 PM   #27
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i think from 5-7 or something like that.
I m not sure on the discus buffer, But all i know is i had a no hatch rate, to me not using as much DB and then magically i get babies,
Then i changed water and put some DB in it and got one wiggler with the new batch.
As compared to with less DB where i got 6-10 wigglers,
Ive been trying to raise discus eggs for just under a year, With no luck, Thats including taking the eggs away from the egg eater. And trying to raise them on my own, caging, trying different things, These fish would lay every week.

Ive tried everything except RO and of course bottle water.
I would like to rule out everything i am doing before i go spend 100-500 dollars on a RO unit tho, which i have been contimplating.
My final guess is DB, but would like some expert opinions.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:34 AM   #28
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The first thing to consider is will you provide the gallons and time to raise a larger spawn? If the answer is yes, than an RO unit will be less expensive and better than DB in the long run. DB precipitates out only calcium and magnesium.

It makes no sense to invest in expensive equipment without having the ability to monitor the results. I would buy a TDS meter first. In this way you'll know your starting point, and you can experiment by mixing RO with tap water until the TDS is around 100ppm.

A pair that spawns frequently and eats neither eggs or fry is a terrific pair. You've done a great job so far.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianNY
In this way you'll know your starting point, and you can experiment by mixing RO with tap water until the TDS is around 100ppm.
This would be considered "soft" and I know that discus LIKE soft water. What I am wondering is can the water be TOO soft and have such a low level of TDS that it prevents the eggs from hatching/fry from developing properly? The reason that I am asking is because of my GBR's. I recently had 85+ wigglers in my 10 gallon grow out tank and only 3 are still living 2 months later (my first 3 ). I am wondering what the problem is and why I can't get the fry to survive. I used all distilled water in the tank, and all RO water in the tank where they were spawned. I have had wigglers before but they never made it past 7 days or so.
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:12 AM   #30
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I got more then enough tank space and time to raise the young,
thanks for all the help, will keep you updated.
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Old 06-29-2007, 06:24 PM   #31
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Using 100% distilled or RO water can kill fish. So indeed it can be too soft. Fish need a certain amount of "good" minerals in their environment.
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Old 07-05-2007, 01:34 AM   #32
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TDS-
breeding tank-750
tap-190ish
other discus tank-450
tap fw tanks prime only-390ish
Just wondering why there is so much difference in the numbers.
Both discus tanks are treated the same.


If the TDS is suppose to be at 100-120
then i would guess that its extremely high and i would have to be incredibly shocked that i even had wigglers.

I will be figuring out ratio's and i am completely stopping using discus buffer.
Discus buffer= BAD BAD BAD

Will get this figured out.
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:31 AM   #33
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I don't think the DB is the culprit. There's obviously something else going on in the tank. If I had to guess I'd say it's in the gravel. Not one discus breeder that I know (including myself), would use gravel because it traps solids. Consider the filter as a possible cause as well. We're talking about both organics and inorganics as problems.

Now that you have a TDS meter you can experiment. Start with 50/50 ratio of tap to distilled and see what you get. You can do this with very small amounts of water. 100 to 120ppm is ideal.
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:58 PM   #34
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haha, its funny that you say that.
I took the gravel out and gave the tank a good overall cleaning, no gravel no algea.
Filter maybe In the process of changing it over.

But the 120g i treat it the exact same and it has sand/gravel in it also.
Fairly high but not as high as the 20g
Let you know how my results go.
Thank You Jen
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:42 AM   #35
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Well water or municipal Jen?
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Old 07-06-2007, 11:34 AM   #36
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City.
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