Quick to discourage??? split from original post...

[fishfreek]

I will again state that i had no idea that anyone would ever respond to that in the thread it was in, let alone start a new thread to discuss it.

Im late to the party.

Acutally the thread that this current topic was in was split off of the previous thread. What that means is basicly we took a pair of scissors and cut the thread at the point tha this one starts and put it in its on thread to acutally encourage discussion about it. This also allows the orgional post to continue with out the disruption of this discussion.

We (admins AND advisors) try very hard to give as accurate and as best advice as possible. On thing I love about our community is that none of the advisors or admins have an additude of 'I am better than you'. We are all here to learn and/or help others in this hobby.

I would personally encourage anyone and everyone to read magazines, books, web articles and other web forums for advice/information. Only thru the share of information can we improve this hobby and our own understanding of the hobby.

I also want to thank everyone involved in this discussion for keeping a level head.

 

[stoneydee]

I've been keeping fish for just a little over a year now, and have enjoyed this site as one of the best overall, although I have gotten more interested in two specific species of fish now, and visit forums just for those species. Having said that, I'd like to tell you the three most important things I've learned about fishkeeping during my infancy:

1) Before you ever buy the first tank, and certainly before you ever buy livestock, you should read everything you can get your hands on about the hobby - from print and electronic media, including forums like these.

2) No one (and I mean no one) ever does #1. We all make mistakes, and buy impossibly small tanks into which we hope to place all our favorite fish. Or we try and push the envelope on compatibility between species.

3) There's enough advice (good and bad) to go around. Consider all of it carefully and make a reasoned decision that will be best for the fish you decide you want to keep. And remember, it's not we, the fishkeepers, who deserve the kudos for creating and maintaining these little ecosystems of which we are so proud. It's the animals in the ecosystems who manage to survive, and even thrive, in spite of us.

 

[Thaiboxer]

It's all been said...

Y'all have said it pretty well already, but I'll add what sticks with me the most in my experience here:

1. To quote ScottS but in another context - I am a "a recent, prolific poster who clearly has done most of his/her learning only by asking questions here". However, I make it a point to read back-threads pertaining to the problem/question I have. I'm constantly amazed by the Advisors' ability to type the same answers to the same cycling questions over and over and over...

I would get frustrated very quickly and point everyone to the same article. "Read it, then ask questions."

2. Grimlock made a comment that "Over time, people will get to know you as someone with experience and you would get different replies." This is SO true! When I post a thread, I know right away whos advice is definitely learned from experience and whos I might want to research further.

I'd like you all to know that without Aquarium Advice, I would be one totally frustrated probably former fish keeper... now my friends call me the fish doctor because every time one of them has a tank problem, I'm the guy who gets the call. Thanks for helping me learn!

 

[Sati]

I haven't read this whole thread. However, the word that best describes some replies that I read is "Snippy." I think people can sometimes be rash and don't word things quite right. The end result is that is comes of sounding curt and rude. I don't think it's always intentional, and we all know it's hard to read people on the net because we don't have the aid of facial expressions, tone of voice and the like. I read posts sometimes and I roll my eyes, but then I think that this person asking the sort of misguided question may be very young, very new to the hobby, or not speak English as their first language. I know most of us are very passionate about the humane treatment of aquatic life. Regardless, I think a little more *nice* could be dished out sometimes

 

[RogerMcAllen]

I think a snipy problem is sometimes in the way you read things. Over in the pond forums there was a discussion about freezing depth, and I'll admit I took one of the posts as an attack. I was initially angry, but then once I stepped back and reread the post I realized that he was just stating his opinion the same as I had.

 

[drinkingbird]

Overall, I really think everyone in the forum tries their best to give clear, concise information in a well meaning manner. We're here because of our love of fish & all the accoutrements. Remember we are ALL still learning.

**So if you think a reply is snippy, take a step back, re-read it and understand we all want the best for your finned friends.**

 

[QTOFFER]

Sati said it best:
"The end result is that is comes of sounding curt and rude. I don't think it's always intentional, and we all know it's hard to read people on the net because we don't have the aid of facial expressions, tone of voice and the like."

Electronic communications lack the human connection that takes the sting out of negative comments. For typing convenience, messages are short and succinct often to the point of sounding snippy and rude. It's just the nature of electronic media. T
hat's why in this age of e-mail, video conferencing, and instant messaging, corporations are STLL spending lots of money to send people around the globe to conduct business in person.

Whenever I read a post that bothers me (sometimes I can't even put a finger on why it bothers me, LOL), I remind myself that it was probably written by someone in a hurry, who genuinely cares about the hobby as much as I do, and who really has absolutely no reason to be rude or confrontational.

 

[cdawson]

good point , nobody has the time to sit around and right the same responses over and over again. Sometimes a short reply to the point can sound rude to those inexperienced and haven't been around these forums for awhile.

 

[shawmutt]

There's a lot of forum lingo that rarely if ever gets used in this forum, and that's what makes it great. For those who are familiar with forums, you know what I mean. To name a few: flame, troll (although this one has reared its head once or twice ), and repost. This was the first forum I ever subscribed to, but I have tried others (some fish related and some not), and I must say this is one of the most family-oriented, friendly, and knowledgeable (as in good accurate information) forums I have seen. That is why I am alumni, and not just a subscriber.

As far as people being rude, I agree. It's impossible to judge someone's intention based solely on his or her writing (unless it's blatantly obvious). If someone is perceived as being rude, than surely a question or two would set the record straight.

Just my two cents.

 

[TankGirl]

I think use of emoticons helps a lot in making your intentions clear, or reminding the reader that you are not giving them a hard time.

 

[Allivymar]

Hey. I HAVE a pet rock. And a cat. And a buncha fish (and fish babies!). And squirrels living in the walls. And a few racoons living in the neighbor's unused shed. They're all living animals (well..ok..cept for the pet rock LOL) and as such deserve my respect. I'm not one of the hindu (?) folk that won't step on ants, but I will open to window to let a wasp out instead of killing it.

I think I speak for a number of folk here when I say the concern new members see when not so great choices are made come from that respect for living things. We as humans have a choice to remove ourselves from bad situations; our pets don't have that option. And we take fish VERY seriously here *grin*

 

[QTOFFER]

We as humans have a choice to remove ourselves from bad situations; our pets don't have that option.

Well, the fish do.....kinda......we call it carpet diving.

 

[dralarms]

Well, the fish do.....kinda......we call it carpet diving.

Thought that was carpet surfing.

 

[QTOFFER]

Well, the fish do.....kinda......we call it carpet diving.

Thought that was carpet surfing.

Only if you have broadloom carpet like a berber. If you have shag or a deep saxony pile, it's probably more of a carpet dive.

 

[cdawson]

hmmm what do you call it when it's a hard wood floor then?

 

[Allivymar]

Painful

 

[reefrunner69]

Since we seem to be drifting off topic, I assume this thread has pretty much played out.

Moved to the Site Help/Feedback forum.

 

[Suprised]

Well that all got incredibly out of hand. Anyway, the thing i was refering to in my original post was people being quick to tell people the should never have that oscar in a 20, as oposed to asking if it will be moved to a larger one.

 

[dralarms]

Don't take offense, But there are alot of posters that might put an oscar in a 20 gal with all intentions of keeping it there permanatly. Sometimes we forget to ask if it's a temp or not.

 

[BillyZ]

boy... I'm away for a few days and look what I miss! 8O

I think that everyone has pretty much covered everything (and kudos for everyone for being mature!), but I wanted to make one quick response to the original poster that I hope will help them understand a little more why we make so many cautionary posts to new members.

In your own post you offered the scenario of someone posting about putting an oscar in a 20 gallon tank. You stated yourself that if the oscar was only an inch or so he'd have plenty of room for only a couple months. Personally, i'm not that familiar with oscars so I'm going to go on your information as a hypothetical scenario.

For arguments sake, lets say I knew something about oscars, and knew, as you stated, it would outgrow a 20 gallon tank in a few months. If I were to read the post you gave as the example here's what would go through my head, .oO("hmm thats going to end up a large fish, I wonder if he plans on keeping it there or moving it to something bigger...") you said,

You just don't know

and thats exactly what we're working with. I don't know. I can't know unless I tackle that subject. As someone who wants to encourage others in the hobby, I feel an obligation to be sure new members (note, new members, not new hobbyists) have all the information I can make available.

Given that I don't know what the example posters plans are, and given I want that person to have a long enjoyable relationship with his oscar and given that I want to ensure the fish itself has a long healthy life my response to the example post would include an answer to their direct question, as well as a cautionary comment about, "an oscar in a 20 gallon".

However that comment is made the intent is the same, "I don't know" so I have two options. Assume the poster is aware of the size of an adult oscar, or assume that the poster is not aware. If I assume they are aware, and I'm wrong, both the person and the fish suffer emotionaly and the fish could well suffer physicaly. However, if I assume they don't know and I caution them, if I'm right, I've helped them both. If I'm wrong, no harm is done, they simply reply, "don't worry about the 20 gal, thats just QT for the next 2 months while my 600 gallon wall tank finishes cycling".

Thats the reasoning I use when replying to post from someone I'm not personally familiar with. I believe thats probably why others post that way as well. We're trying to encourage you by ensuring you have a successful experience.


so this was my opinion. I hope we have encouraged you (And those who felt discouraged) to stay an active member here. We look forward to helping in anyway we can. Now do me a favor and get that poor oscar out of that 20 gallon!