Since i saw them in the store about 2 weeks ago I've read 2 books and looked at countless websites. I just wanted the advice of some of the people on this site. I haven't decided on tank size yet as I have several large understocked tanks up and running, anything from 46-90. I doubt that a <4" stingray would feel crowded as the lone ray in any of the aforementioned tanks. I know i have to prepare for growth but at the rate i buy fishtanks, I'll have a lake up and running before he's a foot across. Sometimes i feel like people on this website are too quick to discourage new hobbyists. I am not a new hobbyist and have no intention of taking a blind leap and impulse buying a fish. I'm amazed by all the replies that got. Thanks a lot everybody.
Quick to discourage??? split from original post...
- Thread starter Suprised
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Sati
Aquarium Advice Addict
Suprised said:
Agreed.
freshwatergal
Aquarium Advice Freak
Double agree!
G
Guest
Guest
Wow, as an advisor here I take this seriously. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would really like to know why you all feel this way?
I'm not mad or anything, but would like to use this as a feedback post to help make the site better, or more friendly, whatever we need.
Thanks,
Corvus
I'm not mad or anything, but would like to use this as a feedback post to help make the site better, or more friendly, whatever we need.
Thanks,
Corvus
LAGlocker
Aquarium Advice Freak
Im new to the board here myself. I cant say that I think anyone is trying to discourage anyone from the hobby, or even keeping fish. I feel that if someone asks for a opinion that is usually what they get, one persons opinion. Now if the person giving the opinion feels, or thinks that what is being asked is wrong, they will say so. Such as certain fish, or trying to do something. I know I myself have already said that someone really shouldnt do something yet, and I have only beeen on here less than a month. I dont think anyone is saying or doing anything just to be mean, but that they are truely trying to help the person, so that they get the most enjoyment out of the fish keeping hobby. Of course thats just my opinion.
I'm a little confused. I have read your post about Teacup Rays in the FW General Discussion forum, and I see one poster who MIGHT be considered not totally supportive, mostly due to the fact you didn't mention you had done research on them, and they still took the time to offer you the link to a website full of ray info. Why are you amazed? Did you post elsewhere on the site about them and I missed it? I appreciate you letting us know how you feel; I'm just not clear as to why.
And I agree with Corvu; if there is an issue with discouraging newbies - tell us like Suprised did! We need to know.
And I agree with Corvu; if there is an issue with discouraging newbies - tell us like Suprised did! We need to know.
Overstocker
Aquarium Advice Freak
I say put as many fish as you can and maintain water within parameters!!!
I know my Pleco can get over a foot long but I have never kept one that long (I guess it takes more than 2-3 years for it to get anywhere near that size.....lol
I know my Pleco can get over a foot long but I have never kept one that long (I guess it takes more than 2-3 years for it to get anywhere near that size.....lol
grimlock3000
Aquarium Advice Addict
"Sometimes i feel like people on this website are too quick to discourage new hobbyists."
It is very frustrating to keep watching people make the same mistakes others have made repeatedly in the past. More often than not, people are just trying to make someone aware of their situation than bash on someone. At some point, the experience fishkeepers will come into a thread and slap someone's hand because it is very obvious that they are not doing things correctly. Sure, people do not like to be told they messed up, but I can not count the number of threads similar to this...
"Hi, I just bought 2 Cichlids, a Goldfish, 2 Common Plecos and a Shark for my 10g tank, what do I feed them???"
For what its worth, some people have received positive reinforcement to do the WRONG THING because people are trying to be nice instead of telling someone like it is. Fish are living animals, some people get pretty emotional about it, but it is a good thing when they are just looking out for the fish.
Looking at your Ray post, you got off the hook pretty easily
Except do you really want to put the Ray in a lake where you might not see it often? They are cool to look at in a tank
It is very frustrating to keep watching people make the same mistakes others have made repeatedly in the past. More often than not, people are just trying to make someone aware of their situation than bash on someone. At some point, the experience fishkeepers will come into a thread and slap someone's hand because it is very obvious that they are not doing things correctly. Sure, people do not like to be told they messed up, but I can not count the number of threads similar to this...
"Hi, I just bought 2 Cichlids, a Goldfish, 2 Common Plecos and a Shark for my 10g tank, what do I feed them???"
For what its worth, some people have received positive reinforcement to do the WRONG THING because people are trying to be nice instead of telling someone like it is. Fish are living animals, some people get pretty emotional about it, but it is a good thing when they are just looking out for the fish.
Looking at your Ray post, you got off the hook pretty easily
Except do you really want to put the Ray in a lake where you might not see it often? They are cool to look at in a tank grimlock3000
Aquarium Advice Addict
As a counterpoint, some people come to this board, ask questions about a problem, get good answers, and then do not agree and just keep doing what they want anyway. They just keep digging themselves into a hole and not taking people's advice as the fish suffer. THAT is frustrating
Menagerie
Aquarium Advice Addict
Hey Surprised--I reread your 'teacup ray' thread and from what I could see, there was one person very concerned about growth rate. That's the biggest thing I see on this forum--people cautioning others about growth rate, or overstocking the tank.
As for as your teacup ray, I wish you the best of luck with it and hope you post pics soon!
As for as your teacup ray, I wish you the best of luck with it and hope you post pics soon!
Why doesn't that statement surprise me coming from you Overstocker?
I can't say I agree with it tho! Water parameters are just one of the factors in keeping happy, healthy fish; there is territorial needs as well as room to move and don't forget surface area!
grimlock3000
Aquarium Advice Addict
Great point, a lot of people have overstocked tanks or incompatible fish tearing each other apart and say it is OK because the water parameters are OK and they do 50% water changes every two days (or whatever).
QTOFFER
Aquarium Advice Addict
First, I'd like to say that this site is the friendliest of the half dozen or so that I visit. The members are very quick to respond to questions and the advice is top-rate. I haven't seen any trollers here - no egomaniacs, no know-it-alls - just lots of nice folks who enjoy the hobby and would like to see others succeed with it too. The advisors amaze me with their ability to answer the same cycling/ich questions over and over without showing the smallest sign of irritation - they all must be schoolteachers.
When members - especially newer members - post a question, the rest of us don't know if the poster is a 10 yo with his first tank or someone who has been in the hobby for decades. It's very easy to underestimate someone's fishkeeping ability based upon the info contained in one post. Hopefully, nobody gets offended since no offense is intended.
Cautionary advice should not be misinterpreted as discouragement. If you have the financial means, necessary experience, and motivation to take on any fishkeeping challenge, I say go for it. The people who post the "Do you know what you're getting yourself into?" messages are not trying to discourage - its just that they have seen far too many posts containing the words 'pacu' and '30 gal'.
Good luck with your freshwater ray. I've seen them in my lfs and I think they're cool - too bad they don't work in a community tank full of tetras lol.
When members - especially newer members - post a question, the rest of us don't know if the poster is a 10 yo with his first tank or someone who has been in the hobby for decades. It's very easy to underestimate someone's fishkeeping ability based upon the info contained in one post. Hopefully, nobody gets offended since no offense is intended.
Cautionary advice should not be misinterpreted as discouragement. If you have the financial means, necessary experience, and motivation to take on any fishkeeping challenge, I say go for it. The people who post the "Do you know what you're getting yourself into?" messages are not trying to discourage - its just that they have seen far too many posts containing the words 'pacu' and '30 gal'.
Good luck with your freshwater ray. I've seen them in my lfs and I think they're cool - too bad they don't work in a community tank full of tetras lol.
ScottS
Aquarium Advice Freak
QTOFFER said:
Ding ding ding ding ding!
As noted, it's almost impossible to tell the level of one's experience unless it is explicitly spelled out. Is it then not appropriate to be overly cautious with advice, particularly when it comes to tank siz/stocking levels/growth/compatibility? It may come off as condescending or unhelpful to a questioner of more advanced knowledge, but it truly seems to be the prudent action for anyone attempting to provide advice when the questioner's level of knowledge is unknown.
We have a recent, prolific poster who clearly has done most of his/her learning only by asking questions here. It's readily apparent this person has gotten ahead of themselves and not done much, if any real research elsewhere. When someone of this level is posting questions, the lowest common denominator for answering all advice questions can become unnervingly low to those with more knowledge seeking advice.
Menagerie
Aquarium Advice Addict
I agree that this site is over-all friendly and quick to respond, but I was just reading through the "black ghost knife issue" thread and it's getting uncomfortable!
I'm sorry to the rest of you for delaying my response to you about my comment but I feel it my obligation to respond to ScottS's comment first as i find it extremely offensive as any of you would in my position.
Actually- I hate computers. I didn't look on the internet at all before about 6 months ago. I run 7 tanks. 3 freshwater, 1 FO saltwater, and 3 saltwater reefs (20, 55, and 90g). The only fish death ive ever been responsible for was my first starfish, that i made ill enough for crabs to exploit. That concludes my unnecessary defense.
It's this kind of elitist comment i was refering to. People are sometimes far to quick to assume superiority over those that they do not know. I would really appreciate any input from site administration on this as it seems to have become a fairly significant issue.
Actually- I hate computers. I didn't look on the internet at all before about 6 months ago. I run 7 tanks. 3 freshwater, 1 FO saltwater, and 3 saltwater reefs (20, 55, and 90g). The only fish death ive ever been responsible for was my first starfish, that i made ill enough for crabs to exploit. That concludes my unnecessary defense.
It's this kind of elitist comment i was refering to. People are sometimes far to quick to assume superiority over those that they do not know. I would really appreciate any input from site administration on this as it seems to have become a fairly significant issue.
medge00
Aquarium Advice FINatic
uhm... i don't know about 'elitist,' but i agree that on occasion i think older members can be a little discouraging. a lot of people have read the forums, asked questions, but it doesn't sink in over night. but now that we've all read the post, lets take it into consideration and get back to our fishes!
LAGlocker
Aquarium Advice Freak
I do not believe that comment was directed at you per se. I believe I know the person Scott was refeering too, and I have to say I agree with him. The person he was referring to does seem to want to rush into this head first with little or no preperation, or even thought as to the consequences of his/her actions to the fish. If you take offense to that, I am sorry, but as I stated earlier in this thread, if someone asks for a opinion then that is surely what they get on a message board site. It is up to the person asking the question whether they listen to those opinions or not. If someone gets upset over a opinion then that is not the fault of the person giving said opinion. I also do not believe that anyone is claiming, or even trying to establish superiority over anyone else on this site, but it does seem more expedient to reply in the simplest terms possible for ease, and in the chance that the person posting the question is a complete newbie to fish keeping. For those who do have the experience it should be obvious that posting like such, even if it does seem to discourage, is only one persons attempt to be helpful and cause as little wasted time and effort as possible. Also as was stated by another poster earlier in this same thread, we cannot know with out you stating explecidly what experience if any you have, so there fore we assume by a common factor that you possibly have none or very little. As I said none of this is said to critize you, or anyone else, but perhaps you should cut each of us the same slack you want, and treat us the same as you wish to be treated and understand we are here to try to help those who ask a question the best way we can.
end of rant.
end of rant.
grimlock3000
Aquarium Advice Addict
Questions on this board get asked by all types of people with all types of experience, when replying to a new poster, by far the safest thing to do is presume they are limited in fishkeeping knowledge and try to steer them in the correct direction.
"It's this kind of elitist comment i was refering to. People are sometimes far to quick to assume superiority over those that they do not know."
No one is trying to be superior, they are just trying to help. When offering assistance, it is best to start at a really low level and work up from there. Assuming that someone has a deep background in fish would land a lot of new people in hot water. If you have trouble with cautionary advice, you should give much more information about yourself in your posts. Over time, people will get to know you as someone with experience and you would get different replies.
I have a deep background in computer repair and troubleshooting. When I ask a question to other support people, they treat me like a total nub until I tell them I have been working with computers for almost 10 years.
"I would really appreciate any input from site administration on this as it seems to have become a fairly significant issue."
Can you explain the issue again please? I am honestly still bafalled as to what bothered you so much.
"It's this kind of elitist comment i was refering to. People are sometimes far to quick to assume superiority over those that they do not know."
No one is trying to be superior, they are just trying to help. When offering assistance, it is best to start at a really low level and work up from there. Assuming that someone has a deep background in fish would land a lot of new people in hot water. If you have trouble with cautionary advice, you should give much more information about yourself in your posts. Over time, people will get to know you as someone with experience and you would get different replies.
I have a deep background in computer repair and troubleshooting. When I ask a question to other support people, they treat me like a total nub until I tell them I have been working with computers for almost 10 years.
"I would really appreciate any input from site administration on this as it seems to have become a fairly significant issue."
Can you explain the issue again please? I am honestly still bafalled as to what bothered you so much.
Fruitbat
Aquarium Advice Addict
OK....let's step back a bit and try to calm this down. Surprised...I do understand your reaction to the way things developed. It sounds to me like your teacup stingray will be in good hands and has a happy home waiting for it. As an experienced aquarist, I'm sure you understand the frustration that people can feel when they see a less experienced person making an obvious mistake that will end up being discouraging to them and possibly disastrous to the fish.
Let me relate a story, if you'll indulge me:
I was in a local fish store not too long ago and noticed a couple of baby (2 inch) Red-tailed Catfish for sale. As I was admiring the fish (and wishing I had a 500 gallon tank to put them in), a customer came up to the tank, a salesman in tow. She announced, in no uncertain terms, that she wanted both of the Red-tail Cats. Being a busybody, I turned to her and asked her what size aquarium she had at home. She proudly announced that she had a 10 gallon tank and a 5 gallon tank. I decided at that point to gently point out the error of her ways and led her to the store's large display tanks where they have a couple of 3+ foot Red-tails. I explained to her that the fish she was planning to buy were just babies and that they would eventually grow to enormous size. Her response?? "So I should put them in the 10 gallon tank then." I finally managed to talk her out of the Red-tail Catfish but as I was leaving the store I saw her with the unfortunate salesman once again in tow....animatedly pointing at a tank full of Peacock Cichlid babies.
There are times when all of us see the POTENTIAL for a problem to occur and the more concerned of us will try to point out the impending pitfalls. If, on occasion, we err on the side of caution and end up seeming condescending or 'snobbish' then egos can get a little 'bent' and situations like this one ensue.
It is with the best of intentions that the people on here occasionally try to prevent folks from repeating the mistakes of others and I certainly don't think anybody would maliciously try to discourage a fellow aquarist from pursuing his or her interests to the fullest.
Let me relate a story, if you'll indulge me:
I was in a local fish store not too long ago and noticed a couple of baby (2 inch) Red-tailed Catfish for sale. As I was admiring the fish (and wishing I had a 500 gallon tank to put them in), a customer came up to the tank, a salesman in tow. She announced, in no uncertain terms, that she wanted both of the Red-tail Cats. Being a busybody, I turned to her and asked her what size aquarium she had at home. She proudly announced that she had a 10 gallon tank and a 5 gallon tank. I decided at that point to gently point out the error of her ways and led her to the store's large display tanks where they have a couple of 3+ foot Red-tails. I explained to her that the fish she was planning to buy were just babies and that they would eventually grow to enormous size. Her response?? "So I should put them in the 10 gallon tank then." I finally managed to talk her out of the Red-tail Catfish but as I was leaving the store I saw her with the unfortunate salesman once again in tow....animatedly pointing at a tank full of Peacock Cichlid babies.
There are times when all of us see the POTENTIAL for a problem to occur and the more concerned of us will try to point out the impending pitfalls. If, on occasion, we err on the side of caution and end up seeming condescending or 'snobbish' then egos can get a little 'bent' and situations like this one ensue.
It is with the best of intentions that the people on here occasionally try to prevent folks from repeating the mistakes of others and I certainly don't think anybody would maliciously try to discourage a fellow aquarist from pursuing his or her interests to the fullest.
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