🆘 : Bewildering, mysterious behaviour change in Betta—there appears to be a neurological element (Hope ANDY sees this!!!)

[EGGBERT]

Depends on what else is in the tank. Read up on the cautions when using Praziquantel or if you get the combo, Metronidazole and Prazi.

Will do. The 5gal houses the 2 nerites + plants.

 

[Andy Sager]

Hmmmm… Well, it’s certainly not uncommon to receive inaccurate info, which is why it’s a good thing to consult a variety of sources!!!

Well, to be clear, a variety of knowledgeable sources. In this case, a simple google search of " what is a bloodworm for fish food?" and you wouldn't need to have multiple sources telling you incorrectly tell you what they are.

So u think it WOULD be ok to add the female betta to the assassin tank? She’s currently sharing my former ‘hospital’/nano tank (2.5gals) w/some ram’s horns.

Bettas don't NEED all that extra room so if you are going to move her, that would be a choice of yours, not necessarily hers. That said, I wouldn't move any fish around until we figure out what is happening with this sick male.

 

[EGGBERT]

TY for input above!!!
What type of water should be in the 1.5gal hosp tank—ie, conditioned or drawn from the 5gal?

 

[Andy Sager]

TY for input above!!!
What type of water should be in the 1.5gal hosp tank—ie, conditioned or drawn from the 5gal?

Hospital tank water should always be new water. Use conditioner if it contains chlorine or chloramines.

 

[EGGBERT]

TY for the continued guidance/education

 

[EGGBERT]

Sorry to bug u again, Andy: how many days (hrs?) should the patient be in the saline solution?

 

[Andy Sager]

Sorry to bug u again, Andy: how many days (hrs?) should the patient be in the saline solution?

If the salt makes a difference, you should see improvement in 2 or 3 days. You are not doing a dip or a bath, you are changing the water chemistry to a more mineral rich water. If he responds well to the salt that will mean you will need to salt his main tank as well. Use 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of actual water for that. ( Make sure you only use 1 TEASPOON of salt in the 1 actual gallon of water in the new hospital tank. )

 

[EGGBERT]

Does it matter that the tank is bare? (Pic attached). & per ‘acclimation’, does it matter if some h2o from the 5gal is mixed in? Should i just remove him from the acclimation bag & put him directly in the saline?

Should i see if he has any interest in food? (None the past couple days, BUT, he doesn’t ‘appear’ worse; he IS behaving as if there’s an invader in his body: jerky swimming).

& what about the 2 nerite snails? IF the outcome is positive & i salinify his tank, the snails have to be moved. Everyone’s healthy in the 20gal (& the 2.5gal that’s housing the fem betta & the ram’s horns). Some of the residents (a mystery snail & the 2 African dwarf frogs) of the 20gal r from the same store the nerites r from.

I mentioned much earlier in this thread that the symptoms the male betta is manifesting PRE-EXISTED the nerites—but VERY VERY SPORADIC, so i figured it was some hereditary neuro condition & have no idea why the behaviour escalated—ALSO, ‘IF’ associated w/the nerites, WHY did it take WEEKS? They’ve been w/the betta for at least a month.

Does this help or deepen the mystery?

 

[EGGBERT]

Here he is. Didn’t mix in any tank water—just hand-pulled him out of the bag & placed him in the water. The wee tank is unlit & has a black background, so his colour looks dreadful—he doesn’t look at bad as depicted here

If the salt makes a difference, you should see improvement in 2 or 3 days. You are not doing a dip or a bath, you are changing the water chemistry to a more mineral rich water. If he responds well to the salt that will mean you will need to salt his main tank as well. Use 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of actual water for that. ( Make sure you only use 1 TEASPOON of salt in the 1 actual gallon of water in the new hospital tank. )

Ah—the tank came w/a light fixture—now attached. I have an aerator for this tank—should i install? I know u said no filtration required, but i have a filter at the ready if necessary. I also ordered a mini heater, but that arrives tomorrow—temp in the apt. is currently 69-74F (location varies)—is that ok?

Anything else i need to know/do?

 

[EGGBERT]

Found a ‘toy’ & a food ring—until tomorrow, when i’ll find a ‘hidey hole’ kinda object. He seems to be tolerating the saline.

 

[Andy Sager]

Does it matter that the tank is bare? (Pic attached). & per ‘acclimation’, does it matter if some h2o from the 5gal is mixed in? Should i just remove him from the acclimation bag & put him directly in the saline?

Please read post #2 here: Quarantine tanks and Hospital tanks, are they really different?

Should i see if he has any interest in food?

No

(None the past couple days, BUT, he doesn’t ‘appear’ worse; he IS behaving as if there’s an invader in his body: jerky swimming).

& what about the 2 nerite snails? IF the outcome is positive & i salinify his tank, the snails have to be moved.

NO, Nerite snails can live in both fresh and saltwater. Here's the catch tho, Nerite snail eggs need to be in saltwater in order to hatch so if they stay in there with salted water, you may start having nerite snail babies.

Everyone’s healthy in the 20gal (& the 2.5gal that’s housing the fem betta & the ram’s horns). Some of the residents (a mystery snail & the 2 African dwarf frogs) of the 20gal r from the same store the nerites r from.

I mentioned much earlier in this thread that the symptoms the male betta is manifesting PRE-EXISTED the nerites—but VERY VERY SPORADIC, so i figured it was some hereditary neuro condition & have no idea why the behaviour escalated—ALSO, ‘IF’ associated w/the nerites, WHY did it take WEEKS? They’ve been w/the betta for at least a month.

Does this help or deepen the mystery?

Parasites, like every other living organism, don't get born or hatched ready to reproduce. In some cases, the parasites can remain in a host until a certain situation happens which allows them to reproduce. This is the case with snails and also for a parasite commonly found on Silver Dollar fish. The fish is just an intermediate host and the the parasite starts the reproductive process after being ingested into a bird or mammal. If it doesn't get to the next animal, it eventually just dies. So how long the fish and snails have been together is irrelevant.

 

[Andy Sager]

Here he is. Didn’t mix in any tank water—just hand-pulled him out of the bag & placed him in the water. The wee tank is unlit & has a black background, so his colour looks dreadful—he doesn’t look at bad as depicted here

Ah—the tank came w/a light fixture—now attached. I have an aerator for this tank—should i install? I know u said no filtration required, but i have a filter at the ready if necessary.

Bettas are air breathers so no filtration is necessary. Please reread post #2 here: Quarantine tanks and Hospital tanks, are they really different?

I also ordered a mini heater, but that arrives tomorrow—temp in the apt. is currently 69-74F (location varies)—is that ok?

He should be in warmer water so I'd place this tank in the warmest spot you got so that it's at least in the 70s.

Anything else i need to know/do?

 

[Andy Sager]

Found a ‘toy’ & a food ring—until tomorrow, when i’ll find a ‘hidey hole’ kinda object. He seems to be tolerating the saline.

This is a sick fish. He doesn't need toys, he doesn't need things to play with or objects to keep him occupied. He needs the right medications and peace and quiet. Keep mirrors or anything reflective away from the tank. He doesn't even need the light. Being in the dark will help him conserve energy and put whatever energy he does have into healing or surviving. Please reread post #2 here: Quarantine tanks and Hospital tanks, are they really different?

 

[Andy Sager]

Here he is. Didn’t mix in any tank water—just hand-pulled him out of the bag & placed him in the water. The wee tank is unlit & has a black background, so his colour looks dreadful—he doesn’t look at bad as depicted here

Ah—the tank came w/a light fixture—now attached. I have an aerator for this tank—should i install? I know u said no filtration required, but i have a filter at the ready if necessary. I also ordered a mini heater, but that arrives tomorrow—temp in the apt. is currently 69-74F (location varies)—is that ok?

Anything else i need to know/do?

Did you measure out 1 gallon of water for this tank? The picture looks like it's filled to the top which even in a 1 1/2 gallon tank, shouldn't be that full ( unless the tank really isn't 1 1/2 gallons. ) It's important you measure everything because in such a small amount of water, it's very easy to overdose meds which can kill the fish as easily as a disease will.

 

[EGGBERT]

I did measure out 1gal (+ 1tsp API aquarium salt). The ‘full tank appearance’ is an optical illusion.
I get the ‘no paraphernalia’ angle—i just thought he might benefit from having something to ‘anchor’ against. These objects r all i had on hand.
‘No light’ makes sense, but it will provide a bit of extra warmth until tomorrow when the heater arrives; should i turn it off regardless?

Is an aerator pointless?
& withhold food? (Not that he’d be interested, but in case he might be…)

I will reread the attachment. Thanks

 

[Andy Sager]

I did measure out 1gal (+ 1tsp API aquarium salt). The ‘full tank appearance’ is an optical illusion.

Okay.

I get the ‘no paraphernalia’ angle—i just thought he might benefit from having something to ‘anchor’ against. These objects r all i had on hand.
‘No light’ makes sense, but it will provide a bit of extra warmth until tomorrow when the heater arrives; should i turn it off regardless?

The problem is that if the light is capable of heating the water some, it's capable of heating the water too much. Too much temperature changing is not good so you'd be better off wrapping the tank in a thick towel to keep it from getting too cold. Make sure you cover the top because heat rises from the top.

Is an aerator pointless?
& withhold food? (Not that he’d be interested, but in case he might be…)

I will reread the attachment. Thanks

 

[EGGBERT]

Will follow your instructions, Andy. As always, THANK YOU

 

[EGGBERT]

Good afternoon Andy… Checked the betta—he’s at the top of the tank, fins fully opened—looks good. Heater will arrive sometime today; u haven’t replied to my Q about aeration: would it be beneficial? I have a unit standing by w/a flow-control valve, so the aeration won’t overwhelm him.

The AquaCura product arrives Thu; it contains tablets each one of which is suitable for 10gal units—i’ll subdivide one to the appropriate dose—not ideal, but this process has already involved some improvisation.

As the product is used for both salt & freshwater aquariums, can i assume it’ll be ok to add to the saline?

Thu will be the 5th day of saline immersion—u recommended 3 days. What about cleaning/filtration—should the saline be replaced or topped off?

Should i attempt feeding?

I apologize for bombarding u w/Qs, but this is brand new territory for me, & ur my respected teacher/expert!!!

Please advise re next steps. TY

 

[EGGBERT]

Hope uncan see this. There’s a pinprick-sized ball that looks like fungus…?

 

[Andy Sager]

Good afternoon Andy… Checked the betta—he’s at the top of the tank, fins fully opened—looks good. Heater will arrive sometime today; u haven’t replied to my Q about aeration: would it be beneficial? I have a unit standing by w/a flow-control valve, so the aeration won’t overwhelm him.

I did in post #32. There's no need for it.

The AquaCura product arrives Thu; it contains tablets each one of which is suitable for 10gal units—i’ll subdivide one to the appropriate dose—not ideal, but this process has already involved some improvisation.

If the fish is behaving better in the salted water, I'd hold off on using any other med.

As the product is used for both salt & freshwater aquariums, can i assume it’ll be ok to add to the saline?

If it comes to using it, yes can be used in salted water.

Thu will be the 5th day of saline immersion—u recommended 3 days. What about cleaning/filtration—should the saline be replaced or topped off?

Thursday is 4 days away. See how he's doing by then before doing anything else. As for the salted water, I'd take a gallon container and fill it up with new water and the 1 teaspoon of non iodized salt and just have it ready to use if you replace any of the water. The salt will not evaporate when water does so you don't add salted water for evaporation but you do when you remove water and then replace it.

Should i attempt feeding?

Not unless the fish is continually swimming around normally.

I apologize for bombarding u w/Qs, but this is brand new territory for me, & ur my respected teacher/expert!!!

Better to ask then to guess.

Please advise re next steps. TY

Give it some time and just observe. You don't heal from trauma in a day.