A first timer plunges in with both feet

[spinman]

Nice to meet you all. I'm a first time fish keeper that's going in big.

My particulars: Setting up a FO SW system comprising 120 gal. all glass tank (4'X2'X2'), proclear 200 w/ pre filter, Iwaki MD20 pump.

Haven't cycled the tank yet, but am leaning on the fishless route with ammonium chloride and Fritz Turbostart.

Let me first say to forgive me for asking questions that are probably already answered somewhere on this site. I'm just a little anxious to get started.

Here's my goal: I'd like about 6 to 12 nice looking, low to medium maintenace fish that (hopefully) all get along. I'm ready to put the time in, and do the water changes as necessary.

A couple questions if I may:

1) Cycling; any comments on the fishless cycling/ammonium/turbostart system? Right now the tank has been running with all the decorations and salt mix for a few days. Just waiting to cyle.

2) Fish: I've seen a couple I'm interested in and am wondering what you all think in terms of maintenance and compatibility: Blue Hippo Tang, Percula Clown, Royal Gramma, Naso Tang (blond). If the above are not happy with each other, perhaps some suggestions on 6 to 12 fish?

3) Fish by Mail: Any comments/recommendations on buying fish on the web? I don't drive so getting to my LFS is a bitch.

It's nice to be part of the group and thanks in advance for your help!

Spinman
Cherry Hill NJ

 

[Phyl]

Welcome to AA (from a fellow Jersey Reefer)! I have the same tank that you've gotten. What kind of decorations did you put into your tank? I went with 100# of base rock to start and followed that with 60# of live rock from www.liverocks.com (awesome supplier of rock, cheap, to your door). I generally order my fish from LiveAquaria.com. There are a few sites out there that are cheaper but the 14d guarentee keeps me going back for more. They're customer service has been wonderful any time I've had to deal with them. I'd get 2 percs, the Royal Gramma and one of those tangs. You could also do a few chromis or a couple of cardinals. I have a yellow and a purple so I can't speak from experience on the ones you're looking at but check hardiness and make them the last fish in the tank. A lot of tangs are "Ich" magnets and you don't want an intimate knowledge of THAT parasite. If you're not going to go reef go ahead and get a dwarf angel (but just one) either a flame or a coral beauty. Those are two wonderfully colored fish. A fish count of 4-8 is probably realistic depending on the adult sizes of the fish that you choose (you want around 25% of your tank volume in fish inches).

Add your fish one or two at a time when your cycling process is over so as not to overwhelm your tank.

 

[lando]

Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!!
Any thought to using LR in the tank. If there is one peice of advice I can give you, it is to use LR as biological filtering media. It is the best thing you can do for a tank. It is not cheap but well worth it.

1) Cycling; any comments on the fishless cycling/ammonium/turbostart system? Right now the tank has been running with all the decorations and salt mix for a few days. Just waiting to cyle.

Use a raw shrimp from the grocery store to start your cycle. LR also works great to kick start a cycle. I would remove the decos for now, they will just get covered in algea and look bad during the cycling phase.

2) Fish: I've seen a couple I'm interested in and am wondering what you all think in terms of maintenance and compatibility: Blue Hippo Tang, Percula Clown, Royal Gramma, Naso Tang (blond). If the above are not happy with each other, perhaps some suggestions on 6 to 12 fish?

Decide what type of tank yo want...peaceful community, reef, perditor aggressive. Then decide on one or two "must have" fish that are your favorites and build the rest of the tock aroudn those.

3) Fish by Mail: Any comments/recommendations on buying fish on the web? I don't drive so getting to my LFS is a *beep*.

There are many reputable online livestock dealers. www.liveaquaria.com is one that I have used with great sucess. They have a flat shipping fee and do not charge for boxes or packaging. Also have a 14day warrenty on fish. There are many other that are great as well.
Lastly, I recommend buying a good book on SW fish. I like "The Consceintious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner. It is a very good resource. Keep stopping here with your questions and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[gilraen]

Welcome to AA I would like to recommend a book that has helped me lots, it is 'The New Marine Aquarium' by 'Michael Paletta'. It covers pretty much everything there is to know about SW tanks. It is also recommended by this website. Good luck with your new tank and keep us posted!!

 

[spinman]

1st timer

Thanks for the quick reply. This site seems real helpful and I've only been on it 6 hours!

My decorations include some rocks that have a bunch of small worm like holes in it, a piece a lava rock, some artificial coral, and my base is 30# of crushed coral, and some shells from when I was a kid.

Seem like from the other posts that LR would be a good idea.

It all seems of kiinda overwhelming right now.

I'm not sure what to do first, but i think it's to start cycling the tank. What's your take on fishless cycling?

Thx

Spin

 

[lando]

What's your take on fishless cycling?

Go for it. Drop in a cocktail shrimp and let it go to work.

 

[grimlock3000]

I would seriously consider FOWLR. You can cycle with the live rock, and the live rock makes for some of the best filtration you can ever have. And it looks better than fake decorations

 

[spinman]

Can you clue me in on this dead shrimp method?

How long does it take?

Do I _really_ need LR? It would cost me fortune for my tank. Isn't my $290 filter good enough for my FO tank?

Thanks again

Spin

 

[Brenden]

cycle without fish

Hello I am also a first timer with SW. If you jumped in with both feet then I guess I bought the lake. (525 gal) If it makes you feel better my live rock is going to run me around $2000. Here is the article you were asking for.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15

 

[spinman]

I'm sinking fast.....<

To all,

Thanks for the feedback. I get the impression that most of you are quite advanced fish/reef folks.

To be honest, I'm trying to keep this new hobby as simple as possible.

This brings to mind my last great hobby 14 years ago. I wanted to start brewing beer at home to save money and because I developed a love for German what beer. I told my friend who was a homebrewer to just teach me the minimum things I'd need to do this. In oher words keep it simple. Well as I got into it, and joined an online homebrew group, I went from doing small 5 gallon batches on the kitchen stove to eventually exploding into 30 gallon batches outside with propane burners and all kinds of Stainless tanks and pumps and kegs and on an on. I had the largest homebrew setup in my area. Now it's all gone (sold on Ebay). Too much work and made a heck of a mess.
I don't miss it though. Now I just go to the store and buy what I want.

I'd don't want this to happen with my SW tank.

My goal is to have a FO system with a few nice fish and that's it. I come home from work, I look at the fish , feed the fish, check the levels and do the required water changes as necessary.

I'm getting a little scared with all this talk of LR and stuff.

I mean, am I kidding myself that what i want to achieve can be done without the LR?

Thanks again for your help.

Spin

 

[Phyl]

The less maintenance you want to do the more live rock you should drop into the tank. Built in biological filtration with no added work or hassle. I'd have LR over a machanical filter any day of the week.

Sounds like you're going to have a really hard time keeping this hobby simple. It inevitably ends up with you putting piping through your wall to a basement sump. Good luck keeping it contained!

 

[grimlock3000]

Do I _really_ need LR? It would cost me fortune for my tank. Isn't my $290 filter good enough for my FO tank?

$290 spent on Live Rock is a much better purchase than $290 spent on a filter. Like Phyl said, LR makes the tank easier to maintain than other types of filtration. Also, marine tanks are not simple, even if you want them to be.

 

[dizzyliz]

Wanna say hi too from Williamstown, grew up in Cherry Hill....anyways, live rock...live rock...live rock, have had my 55 going since Jan with 80lbs of live rock and a DSB, been a piece of cake maintence wise. I do have a wet dry filter and have been removing the bioballs and will replace it with live rubble. Anyways, get the cycle going and have fun, hoping things don't get frustrating but so far so good.......good luck to ya. Everyone here has been a great help. I just still can't find my baby conchs though


Liz

 

[badfish]

seriously, you may not think you want LR now, but eventually you will. Do yourself a favor by saving money and order 3/4 of it off of hirocks.com, i think its 50 bucks for 30lbs. If you get like 60 lbs of base and 30lbs of live you should be good. You generally want 1-1.5 per gallon. It looks a hell of a lot nicer, and will keep your system more stable. I am by far an expert, ive had my tank up for 2-3 months now, and it is really addicting, i was the same way, keep it simple, but if your gonna go with that big of a tank, you might as well go all out. Any thoughts on a protein skimmer? Make sure to QT your fish also. Good luck, and welcome to AA.

 

[AnnnetteM]

If tanks are usually not sucessful w/o LR then I am missing something here as I am about to fill a 110 gal tank w/o it. I was at Big Al's here in s FL and he has a 5000 gal display tank and over 20,000 gal of retail tanks and they have nothing run w/ LR. They use the plug in plastic reef systems. It's the same fake rock systems used in the giant tank in the Shed Aquarium in Chicago. If they can do this commercially why not in a home FO system?

 

[ashobson]

I am a big believer in 1 pound of live rock per gal. But hold on you could add some cheap base rock. I know if you research it you can even find instructions on making your own. You need to add sand to your bed buy some live rock to seed it. I would put a 6 damsels in there and wait about 1 year before I would try adding and higher priced fish making sure the damsels make it first. Most all lfs will take the damsels back in trade for the fish you really want once you get going. Take it slow this is not an overnite hobby The real key is patiance taking it slow. I have 2 tanks going and that is how I approached it after losing a bunch of fish back 20 years ago. Good luck wish you well.

 

[Shannono]

...am I kidding myself that what i want to achieve can be done without the LR?

Spinman, I'll come out of the closet and admit to having a FO tank without live rock. I have a 90 gallon tank, and although the vast majority of Aquarium Advice members are proponents of live rock, I opted for dead coral for my decor and a W/D filter. You can do this without live rock if you want to - it's entirely up to you. I'm a relative newbie at this aquarium stuff, only 6 weeks in, and I may eventually decide to go the live rock route, but for now, I'm leaving my tank the way it is - no live rock.

Good luck to you.

Shannon