AMMONIA ISSUE!

[TheDudeAbides]

So yesterday the ammonia was at 0.5. I did a water change and added the Fritz 7. Gently squeezed the filters in some of the removed water to open them up a little. Seems to be flowing ok. But still no signs of Nitrite or Nitrate increasing. Both at 0. Fish don’t appear to be distressed or hurting in any way yet. But I guess the cycle still hasn’t begun to catch up on its own yet?

 

[Aiken Drum]

Its difficult to say. Your ammonia doesn't seem to be rising so thats a positive. Some is probably turning to nitrite, and some nitrite is probably turning to nitrate, possibly all the nitrite is turning to nitrate. The last photo you posted suggested there was some nitrate. Remember its a home test kit, and not all that accurate, especially the nitrate test.

If say the ammonia is rising by 0.25ppm a day, and 0.25ppm of ammonia is turning to nitrite a day, and then all the nitrite is turning to nitrate, that would mean that nitrate would increase by less than 1ppm per day, some of which is being removed by your water changes. That would be consistent with your test results and your cycle starting to establish.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Ok. Is there a more accurate way of testing by any chance? Even bringing water to my local tropical fish shop, which I’ve done in the past before buying the API Master kit, they use the same kit to test. I guess I’ll just keep an eye on it all, and try not to intervene too much as long as the ammonia doesn’t rise more.

As I’ve mentioned before, I do keep a polishing pad in front of the main sponge inside the filter… I think one of you guys mentioned something about removing it at one point. Should I just leave it alone or take it out? Don’t know if that will have any impact on any of this at this point.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Professional analysis in a laboratory. About £100 per sample for a basic suite of test results. You can buy a professional test kit, these are about £600, plus the cost of the reagents which are expensive too. And even with lab quality equipment, unless you have all the other equipment available in a lab to ensure the tests are done in the correct environment they are difficult to get right. Contaminants that you arent testing for can throw off the test you are carrying out (nitrite effects the nitrate test, water conditioners can throw off the ammonia test). Those 8 drops or 10 drops of reagent arent all exactly the same, that 5ml water sample isnt exactly 5ml. A test kit straight out of the factory might show a different result than one thats been sat on the shelf in the store a year. Some of the tests arent even tests for what you think they are. Your ammonia test isnt a test for ammonia, its a test for ammonium. The KH test is actually a test for alkalinity.

But your home test kit is accurate enough for what you are using it for. Its going to tell you if your parameters are at the low end or high end. Its going to tell you if your parameters are rising or falling to a significant degree. Its not accurate enough to distinguish between marginal amounts. Its not going to accurately tell you if your parameters are changing slightly on a day to day basis. It will tell you if they change significantly, or allow you see a slight daily change over the course of a week.

Honestly, can you look at the nitrate test and tell the difference between 10ppm and 20ppm or 40ppm and 80ppm?

 

[Andy Sager]

Ok. Is there a more accurate way of testing by any chance? Even bringing water to my local tropical fish shop, which I’ve done in the past before buying the API Master kit, they use the same kit to test. I guess I’ll just keep an eye on it all, and try not to intervene too much as long as the ammonia doesn’t rise more.

As I’ve mentioned before, I do keep a polishing pad in front of the main sponge inside the filter… I think one of you guys mentioned something about removing it at one point. Should I just leave it alone or take it out? Don’t know if that will have any impact on any of this at this point.

As I suggested, remove the polishing pad if that is something that gets replaced regularly. You don't want to be building a colony on that pad and you certainly don't want to be removing nitrifying microbes at this point.

Aiken pretty much covered the rest. Unless you want to spend a lot of money on electronic monitors and sensors, home tests are " good enough" for what we are doing. In reality, it's either right or wrong. We don't really need to know exactly how wrong it is. If it's wrong at all, you fix it immediately.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Well here’s my latest… most of the time, if I do a water change & add the bottled bacteria with a reading of about 0.5, the next day I read about a 0.25 in ammonia. After waiting a couple of days it seems to climb back to around 0.5. That’s where it’s at currently again. Nitrites and Nitrates seem to consistently be at 0. But today, one of my hatchets died. The other hatchets didn’t seem to want to eat after it was removed. Guessing that could be normal for them at the moment considering what happened with their counterpart? Don’t know if any of this could be related to the issue I’ve been facing. I did a 50% water change and added another round of the Fritz 7. I DID find quite a few decent sized chunks of old, uneaten algae wafer buried in the bottom of a plant that came free once I moved it a little bit. Obviously i removed the pieces.

And I also removed that polishing pad because normally I would change that out every once in a while. Hopefully it didn’t build up too much of that microbe bed on it. I placed it in a container of removed water for now just in case I need to put it back in, but not sure how long I should even keep it like that if needed. Or do you recommend I just put a fresh one in?

Anyway, that’s where I’m at.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well here’s my latest… most of the time, if I do a water change & add the bottled bacteria with a reading of about 0.5, the next day I read about a 0.25 in ammonia. After waiting a couple of days it seems to climb back to around 0.5. That’s where it’s at currently again. Nitrites and Nitrates seem to consistently be at 0. But today, one of my hatchets died. The other hatchets didn’t seem to want to eat after it was removed. Guessing that could be normal for them at the moment considering what happened with their counterpart? Don’t know if any of this could be related to the issue I’ve been facing. I did a 50% water change and added another round of the Fritz 7. I DID find quite a few decent sized chunks of old, uneaten algae wafer buried in the bottom of a plant that came free once I moved it a little bit. Obviously i removed the pieces.

And I also removed that polishing pad because normally I would change that out every once in a while. Hopefully it didn’t build up too much of that microbe bed on it. I placed it in a container of removed water for now just in case I need to put it back in, but not sure how long I should even keep it like that if needed. Or do you recommend I just put a fresh one in?

Anyway, that’s where I’m at.

Well, there are a couple of possibilities going on here. 1) the #7 you got was not cared for properly before you got it so you are adding water and not microbes. 2) your water parameters are not matching what the microbes need to grow and be healthy.
One way to test the #7, assuming you have the right parameters, is to take a cup of water that is showing .5 ppm of ammonia out of the tank and add 1/2 teaspoon of the #7 to the cup. Add gentle aeration to the cup and test again in 24 hours. If there is no change, that is a sign the #7 is either spoiled or expired.
( Here are the parameters for #7 to work properly as per the Fritz website:
Ideal parameters for FritzZyme® 7 nitrifying bacteria:
Temperature: 77-86 F (25-30 C)
pH: 7.3-8.0; nitrification is completely inhibited below pH 6.0
Salinity: 0 - 6 ppt (1.000 to 1.0045 sg); active up to 15 ppt (1.011 sg)
Alkalinity (KH): minimum 4.5 dKH or 80.5 ppm KH
Phosphate: above 0 ppm )
If your Alkalinity ( KH) is below the 80.5 ppm, the microbes won't grow. They need the calcium.

As for the polishing pad, I'd just get a new one once your tank has finished cycling. Any microbes on that pad will die off if there is no oxygenation so you'd just be letting spoiled water back into the tank if you reuse what you have.

As for the fish dying, hatchets are a more fragile fish and .5ppm ammonia is very stressful for them even for a short while. So this is not surprising based on the conditions the fish are going through. Sadly, imo, the glass cats may be next if this doesn't resolve soon.
As for the algae wafers, I'd get into the habit of removing any uneaten wafer after 1 or 2 hours after adding it. Decaying food is the last thing your fish need at this point.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Oh boy. Well, the Fritz expiration date is in 2027. But like you said, who knows how/where it sat before being shelved in the store. I DID just buy some brand new bottles of it from Chewy, but that doesn’t mean it was cared for any better wherever it came from as well.

As for the water parameters, everything checks out, but I’d have to check the KH for that part of it. I’ll do that and see what I get.

Also, the algae wafers I don’t do often, and usually I do remove uneaten portions. That bit just got hidden from me and I missed it.

Today’s reading was 0.25 ammonia btw. And I discarded that polishing pad and will not be putting another one in until this resolves.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

My KH is around 53.7 if I did the test correctly. Which i believe I did. I do have some crushed coral on hand. Do you recommend I add a bit to boost the KH or will this possibly cause different swings that I don’t want? I have some media bags that I can put some into and drop into the filter or tank somewhere.

 

[Andy Sager]

My KH is around 53.7 if I did the test correctly. Which i believe I did. I do have some crushed coral on hand. Do you recommend I add a bit to boost the KH or will this possibly cause different swings that I don’t want? I have some media bags that I can put some into and drop into the filter or tank somewhere.

There ya go, this is too low for the fritz to be working effectively.
Coral will raise the GH so I'd use the baking soda route instead to just raise the KH. Add 1/4 teaspoon per 5 actual gallons of water then test in 24 hours to see how high it raised the KH then repeat if necessary. You want to raise the KH no more than 17 ppm in 24 hours. If you are unsure of your actual gallons of water in the tank, test in a separate measured amount of water and adjust accordingly.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

There ya go, this is too low for the fritz to be working effectively.
Coral will raise the GH so I'd use the baking soda route instead to just raise the KH. Add 1/4 teaspoon per 5 actual gallons of water then test in 24 hours to see how high it raised the KH then repeat if necessary. You want to raise the KH no more than 17 ppm in 24 hours. If you are unsure of your actual gallons of water in the tank, test in a separate measured amount of water and adjust accordingly.

Quick question regarding the testing of the KH using the API KH & GH test kit: as far as the KH goes, the directions say 1 drop/shake/color-check until it changes to yellow. But then, a few lines down it says the test is complete when it turns BRIGHT yellow. 3 drops had it turning pale yellow. But about 5 drops had it turning a brighter yellow. How am I supposed to interpret this? According to the conversion chart, 3 drops is a way different result than 5 drops. And I did what it said as far as holding against a white surface and opening the top and looking down into the liquid.

 

[Aiken Drum]

There should be a distinct change from blue/green to yellow.

We go back to one of the reasons these tests aren't all that accurate. They are open to interpretation.

 

[Andy Sager]

Quick question regarding the testing of the KH using the API KH & GH test kit: as far as the KH goes, the directions say 1 drop/shake/color-check until it changes to yellow. But then, a few lines down it says the test is complete when it turns BRIGHT yellow. 3 drops had it turning pale yellow. But about 5 drops had it turning a brighter yellow. How am I supposed to interpret this? According to the conversion chart, 3 drops is a way different result than 5 drops. And I did what it said as far as holding against a white surface and opening the top and looking down into the liquid.

As Aiken explained, our test kits are not going to be perfectly to the number but close enough for what we need to know. That said, the test says to stop at bright yellow so dull yellow is not a completed test. In your case, since we are talking about for cycling, the minimum KH value is 80 ppm so you want it to be higher than 80 ppm. Anything higher than 80 ppm ( within reason) is going to make the #7 more effective. The closer to 80 ppm you have it, the faster it will fall to under it which will be a problem again. I would aim for a 120-150 ppm or somewhere close to that then see how long it takes for the level to drop.